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Old 10-12-2013, 01:57 PM
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Paint issues need help

The previous owner of my '59 put a budget paint job on it that was blistering and flaking when I bought it. Please take a look at the pictures below and lend advice.

Before sanding: see the bubbles?


After sanding: appears bubbles come from under primer.



So I'm guessing this all needs to go to bare metal. What do you think?

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Old 10-12-2013, 02:08 PM
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Yes, I'm sorry but your best bet is to take it down to bare metal. I could be that the previous owner used a primer that had issues and came out lumpy, dirty or seedy (it looks as though the truck was painted wet on wet...meaning bare metal, primer, primer, sealer, paint ... no sanding between different stages)...either way...no matter what, the primer needs to be removed so that a proper substrate can be applied.

Ray
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Old 10-12-2013, 02:19 PM
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Kinda thought so. This was an Earl Schieb job. Areas on the roof that were flaking were found to have no primer. That's right, paint over bare metal!
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Old 10-12-2013, 02:26 PM
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That just adds more credence to removing all the paint....what you need to look for is rust underneath the blisters or imperfections...often if there are imperfections in the paint as shown in your pictures, rust has formed between the metal and the substrate...any rust spots would need to be cleaned up first before applying primer.

Ray
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Old 10-12-2013, 11:25 PM
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I noticed on that first pic that there is dicoloration , is this a hood that could have possibly had a small fire under it that caused the bubbles and change of color? Don't see any rust after you sanded which makes me beleive it could be from excessive heat. Don't know for sure just throwing it out there.....
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Old 10-13-2013, 12:41 AM
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The bubbles are known as micro blisters and are generally caused by moisture. Either the compressor was no adequately water trapped or the primer was left too long without top coating. Fibreglass vehicles suffer badly from this and the typical cellulose paints used in the 70s didn't help. No choice but to go down to bare metal. Then my recommendation is epoxy primer. Micro blisters should then be a thing of the past.
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Old 10-13-2013, 03:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJL Electronics View Post
The bubbles are known as micro blisters and are generally caused by moisture. Either the compressor was no adequately water trapped or the primer was left too long without top coating. Fibreglass vehicles suffer badly from this and the typical cellulose paints used in the 70s didn't help. No choice but to go down to bare metal. Then my recommendation is epoxy primer. Micro blisters should then be a thing of the past.
As much as I understand what your saying, it's hard to tell what caused this until the existing paint and substrates have been taken down to bare metal. It could very well be that the compressor and air supply system contaminated the substrate...but...the reason I hesitate to pass judgement before the vehicle has been taken down to bare is that the if you look at the pictures, the blisters seem to be solid...a blister caused by moisture will break open and expose the rusted metal surface underneath.

I would ask the OP if there where blisters on the area of the roof of the vehicle that had no primer and paint was applied over bare metal...if that area was blister free and if there doesn't appear to be rust underneath any of the blistered areas, I would think a contaminated primer was used....but...what you mentioned is a distinct possibility as well, it's just difficult to be conclusive until the vehicle has been stripped.

Ray
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Old 10-14-2013, 09:36 AM
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There were areas that had slight rust on the metal under the primer. The final layer of coating before metal looked like this. Any ideas?



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Old 10-14-2013, 09:44 AM
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It's a little difficult to tell from pictures but pictures do indicate problems....early "Mr.4speed" asked if the vehicle had possibly had an engine fire? What does the underneath of the hood look like? Also, the areas of the hood that are still black...are those areas that are pitted or is that still primer? Does the hood have any distortion, the type that may have been caused by heat?

Ray
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:29 AM
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No sign of fire. The sheet metal also has no distortion to it. No pitting, it just looked like bubbles in the black. What' strange is that black coating was under the original factory gold color.
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Old 10-14-2013, 10:38 AM
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That's exactly what I see when I strip fibreglass body shells back to the gel coat. The original factory primer is spotty and dry like that. It is my opinion that it is water in the paint, which on a nice hot day, expands and forms a blister. Or maybe it freezes and expands? Either way, the blisters are generally dry when flatted, although once in a while, they do have a damp, fouled smelling residue.
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Old 10-14-2013, 11:02 AM
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No sign of fire. The sheet metal also has no distortion to it. No pitting, it just looked like bubbles in the black. What' strange is that black coating was under the original factory gold color.
The two most important things here are that there hasn't been any heat or fire damage and that the sheet metal is still straight and not warped and no pitting. Remove the rest of the primer and apply a Quality Epoxy primer.

If it was caused by moisture and it had been under the factory color, it would have been pitted after all these years....strip the truck clean to bare metal and begin the process of building up the substrate so you know what you have.

Just on a side note...if I'm correct, the most common factory coating in 59 would have been lacquer primer and lacquer paint...not knowing what the vehicle was repainted with but knowing paint and the active ingredients in any paint, there may have been a common blistering reaction between the old lacquer finish (or whatever product it had been painted with) and the new product...and covered or berried with the new top coat. All this is a mute point as the best remedy is to remove it and as mentioned, start a proper substrate with a quality Epoxy primer.

Hope this helps

Ray
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Old 10-14-2013, 12:27 PM
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Why pitted? There would be no oxygen.
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Old 10-14-2013, 02:52 PM
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Well, from what I see in the pictures it could be a LOT of things that caused that to happen (as has already been stated). But, regardless of the reason, the solution is to do exactly what you are doing. Take it all to bare metal, clean it well with W&G remover than start back with epoxy, problem solved no matter what the cause WAS.

Kelly
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by AJL Electronics View Post
Why pitted? There would be no oxygen.
There's always some oxygen present, paint expands and contracts, the expansion and contraction could also allow oxygen to enter...if it was moisture that was trapped...what about the oxygen that gets trapped along with it....that's why it's important to have a clean dry surface. Many times that I've seen bubbles that are caused by moisture, there is a pitted surface underneath as well.

Ray
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