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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-26-2006, 11:14 PM
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Usually if im doing an overall with a color that doesnt cover well i seal it and spray the base similar to spraying candies... pay close attention to you overlaps and u should find it covers a little better.. if you seal the car and it is one even color if you spray the basecoat evenly it will be fine..

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2006, 04:22 AM
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Quote:
if you seal the car and it is one even color if you spray the basecoat evenly it will be fine
Beem
We did seal the car. The paint went on evenly, but is so tranparent that it did not cover. Also the paint seem to roll back from the edges so there was no coverage at all in those areas.

No let me ask this and if 48cad is around I would like to know from him also since he had very similiar problems....pressure at the tank gauge was around 80psi, pressure at the nozzle was at 28psi. The gun is a DeVilbiss GTI and it shows on the gun gauge, for optimum performance, set gauge on gun between 20-30psi.
Is there a remote possibility that with this type of paint the pressure is too high. I don't know if I can quite explain what I mean by this but with too high of pressure the paint was bouncing back off of the panel. I understand the "coverage" of base vs. build of other paint types. But a person would have to see what I mean by 3 coats and no coverage. And I know that with this paint that there is no pigments. When we shot a small area with a Sata .8mm tip and decreased pressure the paint seemed to cover considerably better. So I was thinking that maybe reducing the gun pressure to around the low end of the optimum or maybe a couple of pounds less. And the reason I am asking before trying is because the learning experience is getting quite expensive. So I don't want to shoot first and ask questions later. LOL!!
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Old 05-27-2006, 06:49 AM
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kevin45 Kind of feels like your tied to the dog thats eating you alive huh! First off I'll tell you I was a dupont jobber for the last 15 years. I was there for the roll out of chromabase.There is no doubt in my mind that many of the same colors are more transperant. I think its the efforts of bean counters showing cost saveings at manufacture level, buts thats just me.In regards to the value shade system. We had in our store every bit of printed material dupont put out. Early value shadeing included white,black,gray,red,and tan. Soon after that feasco they came out with actual painted samples of how colors covered better over shades of gray and not tan or red.(no compensation to those of us who bought into the first version)Back to the problem at hand,if time allows and not sounding to po'd see if your jobber can get a rep or better yet a tech to visit you and see exactly what youve done. If, and it doesn't sound like you have,they see a problem or error then your good to go.But more than likely duponts got a problem with this color and this will give the tech more real world data to try and correct it.They wont admit to any thing but if your jobber is concerned at all about future buisness he,ll hook you up with some kind of nocharge product to ease the bleeding and then go back and beat up his rep to share the load.I had done that alot in the last ten years. Good luck! Your getting perfect advice from these other guys as to how to proceed. Joe
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Old 05-27-2006, 08:03 AM
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Kevin,
The Sata with a .8mm tip and lower pressure will probably be putting the paint on a little drier. This will help the hiding ( especially at the edges as it won't have time to "run" from the edges) at the risk of being a little grainy. Maybe if you choke the GTI and lower it's pressure, you can get some coverage, then add one last coat a little wetter to get rid of the graininess.
Dan
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2006, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dt196
Bob,

Bob, you might try the stickers. It would save you the time of making a let down panel and they do the same thing. My PPG rep gave me a roll, they're about an inch square and self sticking. Just put them on a edge you have masked up somewhere.
Dan
Yeah, I've used the sticker before and they work good but my reason for doing a full test panel is so I can guage the coverage before making my paint order. I buy a pint then shoot the test to verify coverage and color match then order all the paint for each job at one time. Also the letdown panel is nice to bring into the jobber to show if there is a coverage problem and ask for recomendations. Example-I tried Akzo Nobel's Lesinol line on one a few years ago and found that it took many many coats to cover and the test panel I shot to verify when coverage was reached sure was handy to show the jobber just how bad the problem was, the rep suggested a different colored undercoat which didn't help. At $400 per gallon and Lesinol's mix ratio of 2-1 it made for more expense and time during application and really turned me away from their product, I would have been farther ahead using Global or DBU. Like Dupont not all of Lesinol colors have coverage problems but when it's bad it's bad. When I first got into this trade all I used was lacquer and Dupont's Lucite was the best covering of any of them, their reduction ratio required more thinner than anyone else's meaning it was thicker and made more RTS product. Now the Chromabase and Chromapremier seem as thin as water. Interesting how things change.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2006, 09:46 AM
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I painted a jeep about 2 years ago in Prowler orange , it was with S/W Ultra 7000 , and it was over a buff primer , it was a bit tough to cover and took about 4-5 coats but after that it was good , Last spring I did a Dart in the Go-Mango (S/W as well) and I had put a tintable primer down in orange first and it was no problem covering mm see the pics below.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2006, 11:49 AM
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S-W tint prime is my absolute favorite primer, period. Not only do you have a ground coat of a similar color it has a built in guide coat. If fills like mad and if the thing gets chipped down the road your primer under the paint is a similar color.

Brian
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2006, 04:45 PM
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Kevin, I shot that orange with a Sata RP, I think around 30-32 psi atleast I inintially set the gun around there and fine tuned it by feel, like I normally do. I'm no expert, but have sprayed my fair share of vehicles. I dont believe it's your gun or setup. From my experience with dupont in that color range, I believe it's a dupont problem. That Prowler Orange and the Go Mango sure are hot colors though.. Chris
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2006, 10:46 PM
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Ha Ha Ha!

Chroma-base, value shade, ... ... BOOOOO!

Guess you gotta use what you got!
Try putting a nice coat or two of white down for a ground. Treat the color like a tri-coat. If you repeat the same method on all your parts properly match should not be a problem. I've learned that yellows and oranges tend to lean towards green when you have grey showing through. I think your color will look nice and bright with a white ground coat.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2006, 12:04 AM
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Wow, it's so interesting to read all the different opinions on this subject. Now, I'm not an expert, but on a color like that it would not have been too difficult for me to decide what to do. Most paint systems have some solid oranges with decent coverage. If sprayouts of that pearl color showed poor coverage, in my opinion a couple coats of a good solid orange would have been the best bet.

I'm not sold on the idea of shades of grey providing easier coverage, not at all. I'm betting that is marketing sleight of hand, having sprayed so many letdown panels that show the exact opposite! When you get the correct solid shade under a transparent pearl or metallic color, it is sometimes possible to cut film thickness (coats) down quite a bit and still have an extemely close representation of what a full black-white coverage test panel looks like.

The paint I use has coverage issues as well, so I do a lot of this. Fortunately, there is also a primer line that enables the mixing of literally hundreds of shades of colored primer. Unfortunately, it costs about $2.09 an ounce to spray!
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2006, 12:31 AM
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I've had excellent luck with PPG and that PVE color... I did find a need to put down some kind of yellow/white to have a even ground and get it to hide well with 3 coats (or 6 passes) of DBU color to cover right. It was around $80 for a pint of color ...
in a nutshell . clicky .. ...
http://www.a2zautoforums.com/showpos...4&postcount=31
the long story ... ..clicky
http://www.a2zautoforums.com/showthread.php?t=3792


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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2009, 01:20 PM
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Just a thought

Kevin,
a little professional advice can save you hundreds of dollars in the long run... when in doubt, ask those who have product knowledge beyond what you or your painters do...
Whenever i am going to attmept either a custom or factory custom color i always consult those who do it everyday and try to mimic their results! if you are attempting to reproduce a chrysler color then go talk to a chrysler painter! if you go to a chrysler dealership that has a bodyshop offer to take the guy out to lunch and bring a notebook... have all of the information handy such as the color that you are going to attempt to reproduce, the intended paint system, your sealer color etc.. etc... i would bet that for a decent lunch for him and his crew you would get a lifetime of knowledge and skill... he will probably tell you everything that you are going to need to know before you even purchase your base... if you want a professional result then you should use the materials and techniques that the professionals use to get that result... write everything down! what sealer he uses, the color of the sealer, how many coats it usually takes all the way down to the clear!...
in most cases he's got a couple of sprayout books and right on the back of each of those cards is a paint formula! most painters even jot down notes about coverage, tint, and even hang time and its all right there!
if you don't have any luck with that method of madness then contact a local jobber or paint supplier and they all usually have painters and techs that have run into the same issue... treat these guys well as they are the best of the best at their craft... these are the guys that we call when we have an issue....
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2009, 01:53 PM
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chroma case

Quote:
Originally Posted by 67goat
ok guys heres my 2 cents, i have shot the color, on 3 occasions all on custom projects, i shot them all with sherwin williams ultra 7000, i have to tell you i had absolutely no problem with coverage, i put a white sealer down ,and i was covered in three coats, i have had quite a bit of problems with coverage with chromabase, i am not knocking it, it is a good product, but some colors are tough when it comes to coverage, i posted earlier in the year about chevy indigo blue man you talking about hard to cover , it is like water. but then again, maybe there solventing all the paint down nowadays, i remember when i could do a whole car with three quarts of sprayable base maybe four, now it seems like it takes two gallons to do an overall, i know im ranting , but base isnt cheap, it has went up about 100% in the last 2 years.im still paying about the same for clear as i was 3 or 4 years ago and high build primer so why the heck am i paying 300.00 for a gallon of red base now??? i could go on and on but i wont. to get back to the question, your prowler orange base should have covered in three coats over your buff sealer. all the base cans say is apply 3 coats to cover if it takes more than that, then i think the jobber should supply you with more paint free of charge, im venting, but thats my 2 cents worth, thanks for listening, mike.
i with you,that indigo was a mother.those privite jets are expensive dont blame dupont for crap supplies blame the jet makers and the massage theripist
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2009, 03:25 AM
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Wow...old thread resurrected. Willwrk4pnt...When i painted it, I did not talk to any Chrysler guys, but I did talk to quite a few experts that paint show cars. They all stated that the Prowler Orange was a tough color to paint for the reasons I stated above. One guy had done his over the value shade of gray and he seemed t have the least trouble with coverage, but the color did not look the same as mine. One painted his over white on a '49 Ford and the color really popped. When I painted my inner fenders, inside of my fenders, the insides of my doors, and jambed it, I got good coverage in a few coats. I think it was because on the small parts, you could lay it on a little heavier. When shooting the truck overall, you are not getting the same mil coverage per spray so the base sealer showed through. And as I stated, everyone that I have talked to had the same problem with this particular color. All in all it took 1 3/4 gallons of base to do everything. I did notice though that when jambing the doors, that the paint actually had better coverage over the factory Teal color than it did the buff sealer. There was an area inside of the door that still had the Teal on the floor. It seem to cover that in one coat and at two coats was completely covered. So base color definately has something to do with it. I do know that if I had to shoot anything in that color again, I would experiment with a different base or more than likely go with a tinted base.

Deadbodyman......You are not the only one that thinks the Indigo blue is a bear. My large truck was basically the same color although I think the correct name for it was black sapphire. Almost identical to Indigo blue. The guy that shot it for me after I got hit complained from the first squirt. Just like shooting water with no coverage on it. The last time I talked to him, he switched brands of paints and has no problems now. So it seems it may be the DuPont paint. I don't know. But for the price of paint it pays to find out ahead of time so as to get your moneys worth. IIRC, the Prowler Orange was right at $700 / gallon. And depending on where you were the jobbers prices fluctuated quite a bit. Prices ranged anywhere from $85-$135/qt.
I don't know what paint is going for now. I guess I am going to have to stop in and see my jobber as I am planning on shooting my Jimmy this Spriing or Summer but I really hate to hear what the price is going to be. I am going to shoot it or at least planning on shooting it Viper Red unless I see another red that catches my eye. I'm just going to hate hearing the story as to how red is so much higher than any other color. LOL!!!
With the way that paints have been going up in the last few years...well decades really.....factory colors are just about in line with HOK paints.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 02-22-2009, 05:41 AM
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old thread

what u meen old thread?i hear that a lot,67 goat realy nailed it that ultra 7000 is some awsome stuff,id deffinently use it.been in the biz thirty years best i can tell everyone is youll get farther with many opinions and using your own head,save your lunch money your already in the right place.a pros a pro dont matter where they work never put all your eggs in one basket youll find something usefull in everyones opinion even the young gunslingers sometimes especially them some of us oldtimers are a little set in our ways stay open minded i learn something new every day especially now ive joined this site. am i doing something wrong i seem to always be on old sites,new to this computer stuff 2 months
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