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Old 09-26-2006, 09:15 AM
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Paint Questions

Some of you might know that I have been taking body working classes at the local college here. (Check out my journal) Tonight we have a paint distributer coming in to answer some questions that we might have. But the problem is that we have really not started to get into the paint yet. The instructor asked to me think up some questions to ask since most of the guys in the class are just as happy using spray bombs. So all you pros out there can you toss a few questions I can ask at school to help out the instructor? (oooohhhh Barry....where are you......)

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Old 09-26-2006, 12:15 PM
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You could ask about paint "compatibilities". Specfically, each paint manufacturer always recommends you use their line from start to finish (i.e. primer to clear), but we are seeing a lot of folks use various different priners, bases, and clears with success (i.e. Martin Senour primer under PPG base topped with SPI clear as an example). Is the risk really more within a product type (i.e. PPG base with Martin Senour reducer as an example)? You might also ask why teh cost of paint has increased so dramatically in the last few years?
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Old 09-26-2006, 12:26 PM
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Also ask him to explain the different curing process of 1K and 2K paints.

The idea of HVLP and LVLP guns.

Painting using a Pressure Pot
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Old 09-26-2006, 01:33 PM
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cool...now the old guy (me) won't look so dumb! Thanks.
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Old 09-26-2006, 02:48 PM
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Ask about how different catalyst affect curing and how temperature plays into it.

Ask about how temperature specific reducers can be manipulated for different environmental conditions.

Vince
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Old 09-26-2006, 03:33 PM
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Hope I'm not to late.

I do a bunch of these classes every year and for a beginner class I find I get the students attention just covering the basics such as (3 hours worth)

Proper prep of bare metal.
What epoxy can and can't do.
Proper mixing of 2K primers and what happens if you over activate and what happens if you under activate.
What happens if you trap solvents in the primer.
Why you need the proper reducer for the temp your spraying the base.
Why fast reducer is not faster at 80 degrees.
What happens if you trap solvents in the base.
The above subjects takes three hours to cover so that is as far as I go that day.

The above first class is may favorite as the whole mission is to give a basic understanding of what everything is used for and most emphasis on what will go wrong if you abuse the activation process or the proper application process. Kinda the fear of God, works pretty good then the second class get more in to products and differences.

The biggest hit of all the classes and you might bring it up to the guy (to do) is the custom painting class the kids love that one and its hands on and class we do that as about class #5-6 at the end of semester so they have some painting under their belt by then.

From the above you should be able to come up with related questions.

Last edited by BarryK; 09-26-2006 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 09-26-2006, 03:48 PM
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Ask him if base coat gets out of its time window if you need to strip it all off and start over again.
How about with a few new less expensive lines of base that have been coming out with formula mixing ability, and less expensive primers, clear ect that have been out for awhile, how much have they hurt sales of the overpriced bigger name companys?
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Old 09-26-2006, 05:26 PM
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OK guys I am off to class so I will ask some of the questions and see what answers he gives. I am going to print out the questions so I can write the answers to them. By the way kenseth17...that base coat out of its window if you have to strip it off looks like a trick questions..If you strip it off the window is now...ahhh wide open!..Hehe. And where are the pics of your finished truck? Barry your right on time...

But really thank you all...I got some learning to do...see ya later
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Old 09-26-2006, 05:40 PM
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No, I just said the strip off cause of the big debate in the dupont chromabase thread on here. Have fun in class. I kinda miss those days at times.
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Old 09-27-2006, 12:17 PM
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Well class went well and I was able to ask a few questions. Allen (the paint store owner) was very knowledgeable and I actually knew him from the store. He was the one that helped me before, but I didn't know he was the owner. All in all he pretty much stated the same stuff that you guys say about following instructions on the product, try to stay in the same brand thru the process, proper prep is vital, etc.
Thanks for the help guys!
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Old 09-27-2006, 12:54 PM
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You could tell him that he should distinguish between doing bodywork at home or professionally on an everyday basis, including the painting end of it.

I believe that anybody doing painting as a hobby should most definitely stay with the same product line, whereas the professionals can mix and match and make different products work.

You mentioned he said you should try and stay in the same product line.

Try is an iffy word, and when your home alone and something isn't working out right you can't ask a coworker, hey whats going on here.

If you could pin him down and set some specific ground rules, some good guidelines to get in the habit of using at home, versus a professional shop.

Just something you could run by him if you want to.

Rob

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Old 09-27-2006, 06:08 PM
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Right you are Rob. He was mainly addressing us as if we were all going to work in a body shop. He did say that they do mix lines and only stock products that are compatible with each other. He did stress that there are alot of factors involved. So all in all I think the talk was great and informative.
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Old 09-29-2006, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gator412
All in all he pretty much stated the same stuff that you guys say about following instructions on the product, try to stay in the same brand thru the process.
I have heard that before.

Brian
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Old 09-29-2006, 09:38 AM
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The guy was a paint store owner, and he said to stay with the same brand? WOW... That's a shocker! Of course he is going to tell you that. That way he can sell you all of the products, rather than just part of what you need. If you use the right "mixes" for a product, you can use different brands of the other products. For instance, you can use one brand of primer with it's mix, another brand of base with it's mix, and a third brand of clear with it's mix. He won't tell you that because then you might shop around.

Think about it. If a car goes into a body shop for repairs that require paintinng. Do they know what brand of paint is on it, if they had not painted it or knew who painted it before? Not likely! They will do the repair and paint right over the paint that is there.

Now, of course there are going to be exceptions to everything. Like if the previous paint is too new, and not activated, or something like that. But if you stick with the same family of paint, like urethanes or heaven forbid, lacquers, there should be no problems.

Aaron
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Old 09-30-2006, 09:17 AM
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Aaron, on the forums over the years I have heard all these different reasons not to listen to someone. "He is only a paint rep", "He isn't a pro painter", "He is a collision shop painter, not a restoration painter", "He sells paint products so you can't trust him". Forget about those labels and just listen to what he says. If it makes sense, follow it, if it doesn't question him. Every single person who opens his mouth deserves question. But just because he sells paint products doesn't mean he is "out to get your money". A jobber in a town wouldn't get very far if all he thought about was getting our money and not providing us with the products to produce a trouble free job. THAT is his main objective, making a few percent GP on sale is nothing if we are coming back in with problems.

It is very true that you can use different brands primer and paint and clear, that is a given and most everyone will agree. However, the statement at face value is just as I have said for years, you have the "ODDS" in your favor when you follow the tech sheets. And if you follow the tech sheets you are likely GOING to be using all componants from one company. And if you do use all the componants from one company while following the tech sheets your "ODDS" are better for a trouble free paint job.

For a newbe or even a casual painter who isn't up on all the ins and outs of product mixing and technologies and what not, following this simple advice will eliminate a lot of headaches.


That paint store owner very likely has multi brands in that store.He VERY likely has some Transtar, Marhyde, 5 Star, etc. clears and primer on his shelves most do that I know of. I am sure you are more than welcome to buy three different brands of primer, paint, and clears from him.
He is giving the best advice for producing the best job just by the odds, period.

You know, I have been literally attacked on forums for giving that advice and I have never understood why. I know that many painters will mix brands of primers and so forth, I have myself (very, VERY few times though, there is no reason to do it in my opinion). But for some reason those simple recommendations get people all riled up. It is like they take it personal, like I am telling them that they are doing things wrong or being calling them a hack (I am NOT) or something strange by simply saying follow the tech sheets and use a system designed to work together by the manufacturer.

Brian

Last edited by MARTINSR; 09-30-2006 at 09:23 AM.
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