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Old 10-02-2010, 07:04 PM
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paint sinking?

Has anyone else been having trouble with paint sinking in body work areas lately with dupont chromabase? Lately, maybe its just me, I painted doors, hood, and deck lid on my current project which is a 68 mustang. I had to do some body work on doors and deck lid. The plastic I use is evercoat gold, I finish sand that with 180, then put evercoat metalglaze over it, finish sand that with 320 then high build prime with nason 2k filler. Wetsand that with 600 then use Chromabase and Nason Select Clear. Sits for a couple days and find the Clear sinks! This has happend a few times with me, anyone have any suggestions? Its beginning to piss me off haha.

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Old 10-02-2010, 08:07 PM
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my first guess would be the primer wasnt cured.Maybe not enought flash time between coats or just not left sit long enough, but thats my thoguht if its sinking around the bodywork.
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Old 10-03-2010, 02:02 AM
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Iíve seen this problem occur quite often. Itís as nanaimoBC suggests.

One to two coats is all thatís necessary with 2k primers and it should be allowed to cure overnight. Applying more than two coats will require additional time to cure and may even require a light sanding to remove the surface skin so it can degas overnight as its curing.
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Old 10-03-2010, 06:31 AM
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I have been applying 3 coats and waiting over night, blocking down and applying top coat. That makes sense so you are saying use 2 coats?
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Old 10-03-2010, 07:14 AM
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Your material list sounds pretty good....Nason 2k is pretty good primer,I used it a lot....THREE coats sounds likea lot though...You could be priming over the bondo to fast (I usually let it sit overnight before I prime) ,if its more of a ring around the edge of the bodywork try sanding an extra four inches around the 180 perimeter with 320 or sand the whole panel with 320 before priming. I always sand >everything" with 320 before I prime then when I prime I stay within the 320 area...
But Nason Clear will shrink a lot...If you want to know just how much your materials are shrinking just leave an inch in a cup and let it dry ,The more it pulls away from the sides of the cup ,the more it shrinks...Monitor the cup every day for a week even after a few days it'll still be shrinking...
Putting your base on to heavy to quick will cause shrinking or not enough base will too(well its not really shrinking ,its just not filling the sand scratches) almost the same look..You'll have to start the "process of elimiation" to find out "exactly" what it is.
I also used quite a bit of Nason clear ...for low end work (lot cars )Its OK, but do yourself a favor and try SPI universil clear...Once I tried it I wont use anything else and its around the price of Nason...but its one of te best clears i've used...
I'd start with letting the bondo and glaze cure over night maybe switch to EZ sand putty by evercoat.(metal glaze is a little thin for my taste)..and work your way up from there...

Last edited by deadbodyman; 10-03-2010 at 07:26 AM.
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Old 10-03-2010, 07:17 AM
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no i alway use 3...but even in optimum heating to me thats not enough time dry proper.If im going to sand to top coat the next day i will alway hit it with a max bake time in the booth or set up the infared heat lamp to get it to kick over otherwise i will leave it sit for a few days for sure.Sometimes still may get a bit of shrinkage which isnt a big deal with a solid base as you cn wetsand the scratches out but on a metalic they will stand on edge when they shrink in and then your more or less screwed
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Old 10-03-2010, 07:50 AM
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I think of it this way ,,,the putty is taking the place of the primer ,the putty does the filling ,the primer just allows the paint something to stick too..Back in my production days it was pretty common to see the bodymen put two coats of primer on some rough bodywork and send it to the painter... The painter would sand it with 180 and prime it again but the first two coats had plenty of time to cure.They were using it more like a spray on bondo.the way I look at it is primer is much more expensive than bondo and putty ...putty cures in a few minutes and can be sanded so its quicker than using a primer and cheaper ...
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Old 10-03-2010, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman
Back in my production days it was pretty common to see the bodymen put two coats of primer on some rough bodywork and send it to the painter... The painter would sand it with 180 and prime it again but the first two coats had plenty of time to cure. ...
sounds like you had the same 3 bodymen i have....flat rate ****'s
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Old 10-03-2010, 08:01 AM
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Thanks Deadbodyman

That was great information! I'm going to do what you said with the process of elimination and see what I come up with, and definitley going to try the clear you suggested.
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Old 10-03-2010, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nanaimoBC
sounds like you had the same 3 bodymen i have....flat rate ****'s
Dont get me wrong ,when you work flat rate and the shop double sheets you and the ins companies are knocking your hours down to nothing.You still have to make money.Its tough out there ,but when these primers started coming out so any body with a few months experiance could do a fair enough job ,thats when things started going bad for us and its only going to get worse..I got out of that rat race years ago.It took years for me to get bondo work down I'm not going to throw it all away and use primer.I dont have too.

A good gauge to judge yourself is after you do your metal work the man that uses the least amount of bondo and other materials has the most talent..you may spend a few more hours getting the metal right but the time and money you save compared to filling sanding and priming is conciderable.....you dont see any bondo on an air plane do you???? those guys have all the real talent... But the other hand ,they wouldnt be able to survive in our world. so you have to walk the line on making money and doing a good job..every car is different and takes a different amount of time..to get it to an acceptable place...Someone told me a long time ago forget about pleasing everyone else....please yourself...You wanna make money or do a perfect job...Now that money isnt as important for me I can focus on doing that kind of work I want too...But I dont envy any of you guys out there trying to make a good living at this ,working for someone else ...I couldnt do it....
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Old 10-03-2010, 12:19 PM
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I use Nason 2k primer also. Works as well as other brands if not better for the price. A tip would be to reduce the mix by 10 percent and it will reduce the curing time before sanding.

As for Nason Select clear it sucks, bottom line. The shrinking issue wasnít a problem for me. It was the fact that after buffing when I wiped my finger across it a streak would be evident no matter how long it cured. That was unacceptable even for dealer work. I switched to a U-POL 2-1 clear and that problem was resolved. It only cost $90.00 for a gallon of clear and 2 quarts of activator. Actually, this clear is idiot proof. If you canít spray this clear get your camera out, snap a picture of your gun, then post it for sale on craigslist and find yourself another vocation, itís that simple.

At my current job, I work flat rate. So when I read you guys are sanding your filler to the 320-grit level it doesnít make any sense to me for production time. I finish everything with 120 grit before DAíing with 320 and it is only around the filler work prior to priming; not on the filler work itself. Maybe Iím not reading your posts correctly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman
A good gauge to judge yourself is after you do your metal work the man that uses the least amount of bondo and other materials has the most talent...
Iíve been working at my current job for 5 weeks now and when I started, we had about a half gallon of bondo. We still have about a quarter gallon left. That should say something about my body work.
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Old 10-03-2010, 04:26 PM
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imo its the Primer and clear.

i have used both of these in the past and used them for a short time(6 months tops)


buy better grade primer and clear and the problem will Shrink its self away.



i used Chromabase for 10 years and liked it,till i switched 5 years ago to PPG products was in AHHHHH.

my ole man used Dupont Products for 40 years and when i switched us before he re-tired he was also in AHHHHHH


the Base is a lot better imo.


best of luck,Travis
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Old 10-03-2010, 05:22 PM
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I've heard the same thing about PPG from other painters I know...very nice paint...But if there are no scratches for the primer to shrink into in the first place......well ,you just dont need much primer...
I dont sand and buff cheap clear ...not ever ...I take the time to make sure my booth is right so theres no trash in the paint....I save all that work for the super,nice stuff....
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Old 10-03-2010, 06:59 PM
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I was thinking about switching manufactures, dupont is getting a little pricey for me. I have been doing bodywork and painting for about 7 years I'm only 23 so everyday is a learning experience for me. Thank for all the useful information guys!
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Old 10-04-2010, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponzic
I was thinking about switching manufactures, dupont is getting a little pricey for me. I have been doing bodywork and painting for about 7 years I'm only 23 so everyday is a learning experience for me. Thank for all the useful information guys!

it doesn't matter how old you are anyone that thinks they have this figured out is the fools in my book.

you'll get better and better as time goes and learn new techniques that will make you a better body man,painter.


PPG is high also,the bases imo are way better and cover better.

Best of luck Travis
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