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Old 11-09-2004, 08:39 AM
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Painted frame, but messed up clear

I finally got to do some painting. I DAís the frame to bare metal w/ 120, cleaned, tacked, primed with one coat PPG Epoxy, four coats PPG Omni bc (the yellow didn't cover the gray primer very well), and two coats of PPG 3000 clear. The time frames were within guidelines, so I didnít do any sanding. I had a lot of trouble with my gun so I have a lot of runs and orange peel in the clear. Iím planning on wet sanding the runs and orange peel out and recoating with clear (after I buy a new gun). Does that sound reasonable? Will I have to sand it anyway even after I recoat it? The picture is of the last base coat.

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Old 11-09-2004, 09:05 AM
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You learned a hard lesson about yellow; you MUST use white sealer under it. Yellow is the poorest covering color out there and the only way to get reasonable coverage is with the whitest sealer you can get. Since I paint everything I can yellow, I am a yellow painting expert!

You can do just about anything you want to the clear-coat. sanding it and re-coating it w/ more clear is no problem at all. A tip for handling the runs; don't try to sand them flat. Won't work very well and you tend to cut through the surrounding clear before the drip is flat. However it is very easy to do a great job of eliminating the runs and drips. All you need to do is make a 'cabinet scraper' of a common single edge razor blade. To do this, take a brand new blade (get 100 of them from your paint supplier for a few $$) and draw the blade over a sheet of 600 paper in one direction several times. You should end up with a 'rolled over' edge on the blade. If you drag the rolled edge over a fingernail at a ~45* angle, it should have a slight drag resistance and scrape up a little nail dust. Bend the blade in a very slight, gentle arc with the rolled edge on the outside of the arc and your tool is ready. The bent arc prevents the ends of the blade from digging into the paint. Now simply drag the scraper over the run/drip and it will neatly totally eradicate the error. drag lightly, the sharp edge does all the work. Once all the blemishes are eliminated, color sand the surface smooth and re-clear.

Last edited by willys36@aol.com; 11-09-2004 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 11-09-2004, 12:22 PM
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VERY GOOD ADVISE....specialy on the white sealer
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Old 11-09-2004, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by willys36@aol.com
You learned a hard lesson about yellow; you MUST use white sealer under it. Yellow is the poorest covering color out there and the only way to get reasonable coverage is with the whitest sealer you can get. Since I paint everything I can yellow, I am a yellow painting expert!
And to add to your problem most Omni colors don't cover all that well to begin with. The Omni line doesn't have a lot of solids and that's one reason its so inexpensive when compared to higher quality paints. Don't get me wrong, I like Omni but you have to keep it's covering capabilities in mind when painting.

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Old 11-10-2004, 05:46 AM
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Inexpensive?

Well, I guess at $83 a quart for a plain solid color, I can't even imagine what an expensive paint goes for. I went to very reputable supplier in my area and told them exactly what I was doing and that I had very limited experiance, and that's what they sold me. I don't know why they sold me grey primer instead of another color. I would have paid for a more expensive color primer to save on base coat.
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Old 11-10-2004, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by willys36@aol.com
All you need to do is make a 'cabinet scraper' of a common single edge razor blade. To do this, take a brand new blade (get 100 of them from your paint supplier for a few $$) and draw the blade over a sheet of 600 paper in one direction several times. You should end up with a 'rolled over' edge on the blade. If you drag the rolled edge over a fingernail at a ~45* angle, it should have a slight drag resistance and scrape up a little nail dust.
Sounds like a great tool (I've always used some sort of "nubber" with sandpaper on the tip - and always with limited success) and I want to try it...but I don't quite understand the directions. See if I've got this right (I've added some of my own descriptive terms to see if I understand what you are doing)

You pull the new razor blade toward you over a sheet of 600 grit sandpaper. (what, ten or 15 strokes?) By doing this you sort of blunt one side of the razor's edge and curl or move the sharp edge slightly upward (if you could see it with the naked eye the sharp edge would now be pointing upward, away from the paper). Then you bend the ends of the blade downward (toward the sandpaper) leaving the curve of the bend as the highest point and the "rolled up edge" even slightly higher. This then becomes your scrapping edge.

I would guess this takes a little experimenting to make these things - I just want to know if I'm on the right track in terms of what I'm trying to create.

Dewey
(The "dull" tool maker)
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Old 11-10-2004, 07:33 AM
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The one thing I would like to add after reading is....

Be careful when spraying new clear over curing clear. It seems that not many people have these problems but a few people BUT!

Sometimes when spraying new clear over curing clear the new clear reducer will attack the curing clear and cause nasty wrinkles.

If you notice any wrinkles starting to form try and dust on the clear instead of spraying it heavy.. Eventually there will be a barrier and you will be able to put we paint on it.

I just thought I would add this.
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Old 11-10-2004, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by cboy
Sounds like a great tool (I've always used some sort of "nubber" with sandpaper on the tip - and always with limited success) and I want to try it...but I don't quite understand the directions. See if I've got this right (I've added some of my own descriptive terms to see if I understand what you are doing)

You pull the new razor blade toward you over a sheet of 600 grit sandpaper. (what, ten or 15 strokes?) By doing this you sort of blunt one side of the razor's edge and curl or move the sharp edge slightly upward (if you could see it with the naked eye the sharp edge would now be pointing upward, away from the paper). Then you bend the ends of the blade downward (toward the sandpaper) leaving the curve of the bend as the highest point and the "rolled up edge" even slightly higher. This then becomes your scrapping edge.

I would guess this takes a little experimenting to make these things - I just want to know if I'm on the right track in terms of what I'm trying to create.

Dewey
(The "dull" tool maker)
Your description is pretty much correct. It is a lot simpler to do that to describe! Just a couple of strokes on the paper will do the job. Another way to do it (my favorite in fact) is to use the handle on ratchet t roll over the blade edge. Goal is to create a little 'hook' all along the sharp edge of the blade. The bend you put into the blade protrudes this hook so it contacts the paint drip without danger of the ends of the blade causing scratches. then when this 'hook' is dragged lightly over the high spots, it scrapes them down very smoothly. A few light strokes does an amazing job. With very little practice, yo can totally eliminate virtually any blemish on a cured clear coat. follow it up with your fine color sanding and polish and it looks like you actually know how to paint a car! Amazing!!

I'll post a photo how-to in my journal tonight and it will be much clearer.

Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisMiddleron
The one thing I would like to add after reading is....

Be careful when spraying new clear over curing clear. It seems that not many people have these problems but a few people BUT!

Sometimes when spraying new clear over curing clear the new clear reducer will attack the curing clear and cause nasty wrinkles.

If you notice any wrinkles starting to form try and dust on the clear instead of spraying it heavy.. Eventually there will be a barrier and you will be able to put we paint on it.

I just thought I would add this.
Chris; this problem is the result of clear coating too soon after the original paint before it is totally cured. Read the data sheet that comes with your paint and it will tell how long to wait before trying to re-coat without danger of attacking the first paint job.
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Old 11-10-2004, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by willys36@aol.com
With very little practice, yo can totally eliminate virtually any blemish on a cured clear coat.
Wouldn't this tool work just as well on base coat runs or is there a difference in what you can do with the clear vs. what you can do with the base coat?

Also, your follow up description really clarified the tool making. I almost can't wait to goof up my next painting project so I can make the tool and test it out!!!!!!
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Old 11-10-2004, 08:45 AM
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Luckily I have never had that kind of problem w/ base coat. I am very careful to NOT run it. I will even accept a little orange peel to avoid runs 'cause clear will cover all that up and that is where to do the heavy lifting in final finishing.
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Old 11-10-2004, 10:09 AM
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Re: Inexpensive?

Quote:
Originally posted by Arrowhead
Well, I guess at $83 a quart for a plain solid color, I can't even imagine what an expensive paint goes for. I went to very reputable supplier in my area and told them exactly what I was doing and that I had very limited experiance, and that's what they sold me. I don't know why they sold me grey primer instead of another color. I would have paid for a more expensive color primer to save on base coat.
Primer and sealer are two different products.



Originally posted by willys
Quote:
You learned a hard lesson about yellow; you MUST use white sealer under it. Yellow is the poorest covering color out there and the only way to get reasonable coverage is with the whitest sealer you can get. Since I paint everything I can yellow, I am a yellow painting expert!
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Old 11-10-2004, 10:48 AM
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cboy,
Thanks for the tip. I will try to scrape the runs with your tool.

troy-curt,
My bad, I didn't read carefully that he was referring to a sealer. I'm surprised they didn't reccomend one.
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Old 11-10-2004, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arrowhead
cboy,
Thanks for the tip. I will try to scrape the runs with your tool.
Arrow,

I'd love to take the "thanks" but that was Willy's tool idea ...not mine. Credit where credit is do (although I'm not above stealing as many of Willy's ideas and techniques as I can get my hands on.)

BTW, that frame looks pretty darn good in the picture.
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Old 11-10-2004, 08:46 PM
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Looky here.
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Old 11-10-2004, 09:48 PM
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Patent that thing and make your fortune Willys. Great pics and explanation.
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