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Old 04-15-2010, 06:11 AM
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Painting 67 Chevelle...best paint to avoid orange peel?

Looking to get some information for all you great painters out there.

I by no means consider myself a painter at all. I've painted 4 vehicles, and for the most part they come out looking good. The only problem that I cant get by is the orange peel in the clear coat. Usually when I paint a vehicle I have to spend hours and hours wet sanding and buffing. Dont get me wrong, it comes out looking good, but it literally takes me too much time.

In a few months my father and I will be painting his restored 67 chevelle. About 6 months ago we painted it, and it came out looking nice. It was the first time that the orange peel was minimal, but still had to wet sand and buff the entire car. My father and I were installing the doors and fenders and needless to say chipped them in the corners . Not to mention we found out the hard way that the rear quarter panel had been replaced with cheap metal. Whoever replaced the panel didnt use filler correctly and when we painted, and buffed the car the bondo cracked Anyways, after block sanding and work to the rear quarter it is now ready to be painted again.

Now down to the real problem...what paint should we use? PPG? DuPoint? NAPA?

For the few vehicles i've painted i've used Martin Senour paints from NAPA. Not top of line by any means, but usually get a good deal.

Will using a better quality paint avoid orange peel?

The equipment I'm now using (recently purchased air compressor & gun) are the following:

Porter Cable 80 gallon 7.5hp 2-stage compressor
Devillbiss PLUS GFG-670

I hope with the new equipment I can produce a nice paint job. Just would like some input as to what paint to use.

Also, if anyone has any advice on painting feel free to let me know (i.e. nozzle sizes, amount of psi at the gun, etc). Painting cars is definitely fun, but is quite a learning experience.

Thanks,
Bill
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Old 04-15-2010, 07:46 AM
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re what paint

the gun is good. if i was painting the car i would go with the ppg paint. but paint will not change the orange peal. that is all in the prep work.
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Old 04-15-2010, 07:55 AM
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Hmm. what exactly causes orange peel? is it all in the gun setup?
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Old 04-15-2010, 08:03 AM
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Orange peel is all about atomization. This includes many factors, air supply (enough CFM) gun, gun set up, spray technique (overlap, speed, etc.).

There is no one answer, but there is a TON of stuff on the subject around here.

Click here for spray technique

Click here for gun set up

Click here for some important info on spraying a car in pieces or together!

Brian
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Old 04-15-2010, 09:13 AM
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Some clears are easier to spray than others, but they have drawbacks as well. As stated it's all about atomization. You must find the sweet spot with material delivery and air pressure. The clear must go on wet enough so it's not dry, but not so wet that you get runs. A few runs are OK that is an indication you are getting enough material laid down. Apply enough clear coats to allow for cutting/buffing that allows a minimum of two to three coats to remain. If possible on the last coat jack up your air pressure a little. Another technique some people use is to over reduce the clear by about 2%, but this is risky as the chance for runs increases.

Vince
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:57 AM
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Brian/Vince,

Thank you for providing some information. Its greatly appreciated.

So then let me ask two questions:

1) Is it worth changing paint brands? It almost sounds like I should be able to spray any decent paint without orange peel. Sounds like the paint isnt atomizing correctly.

2) Is my current gun and air compressor sufficient to get the job done?
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Old 04-15-2010, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94blackcamaroz2
Brian/Vince,

Thank you for providing some information. Its greatly appreciated.

So then let me ask two questions:

1) Is it worth changing paint brands? It almost sounds like I should be able to spray any decent paint without orange peel. Sounds like the paint isnt atomizing correctly.

2) Is my current gun and air compressor sufficient to get the job done?
1. Just about EVERY brand can be painted smooth. Personally I have shot hundreds of gallons of Martin Senour, works just fine.

2. THAT is the question, what compressor and air system (piping, filters, etc. ) do you have?

Brian
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Old 04-15-2010, 12:41 PM
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Brian,

This is what I have:

Porter Cable 80 gallon 7.5hp 2-stage compressor - believe its like 19-20cfm
Devillbiss PLUS GFG-670 (tips : 1.3, 1.4, 1.5)

One inline filter for water separation at the compressor and one inline filter for water at the gun before the regulator.

There is no piping in garage. Its just a 50ft hose.
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Old 04-15-2010, 01:37 PM
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Orange peel?

Most every factory car has it....

And with todays low VOC paints most every "as sprayed" paint job is going to have it to one degree or another too.

It will help if you use some SLOWER drying clear, although the ability to "trick" your paint this way kind of gets lost when it is hot. In any case, use high temp clear and it will help the orange peel issue some over the default "mid temp" that the store will likely sell you.

I would not change brands in the middle of the job, especially since it sounds like you are only doing a partial this time.

Here is the way I see it, PLAN on sanding and buffing, then if you get lucky and lay it down good enough to not have orange peel..... BONUS!!
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Old 04-15-2010, 05:50 PM
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I had minimal orange peel when I painted my 34 with PPG DCU2002, and I still wet sanded and buffed. What really had me worried was the four piece hood sides with louvers. I just could see myself sanding and buffing every single louver . The old pro that was advising me told me to lay those pieces flat, over reduce the clear, crank up the inlet air pressure to 45 psi and fog it on. Those pieces came out so smooth they did not need any wet sanding and buffing. I would not have gotten away with that method on a vertical surface however. I would not go the over reduction route since you are not real familiar with it but I would experiment with jacking up the air pressure.

Vince
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Old 04-16-2010, 05:33 AM
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ALL paints come without orange peel.....Its added by the painter....not the gun ....any good painter can paint any paint with any gun and have it look slick.
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Old 04-16-2010, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 302 Z28
I had minimal orange peel when I painted my 34 with PPG DCU2002, and I still wet sanded and buffed. What really had me worried was the four piece hood sides with louvers. I just could see myself sanding and buffing every single louver . The old pro that was advising me told me to lay those pieces flat, over reduce the clear, crank up the inlet air pressure to 45 psi and fog it on. Those pieces came out so smooth they did not need any wet sanding and buffing. I would not have gotten away with that method on a vertical surface however. I would not go the over reduction route since you are not real familiar with it but I would experiment with jacking up the air pressure.

Vince

Vince,

Glad to see over reducing the clear and crankin the air pressure up worked. Couldnt imagine trying to wet sand and buff those hood louvers.

I appreciate the input. I dont think I will be trying to over reduce the clear. I dont have anywhere near the experience to be experimenting like that. My guess would be that if I tried that i would have runs all over the place and it would just be a mess.

Crankin the air pressure does help. the first 2 vehicles the orange peel was pretty bad (course this was with a cheap gun), but the last few vehicles, including the chevelle i had cranked the air pressure up and it eliminated 70 % of the orange peel. But i will experiment more with the air pressure.

With my compress and gun setup, is there any particular psi range i should be in? for instance how do you know what to set the regulator at? both the compressor regulator and the air gun regulator?

Lets say for instance i set my compressor regulator at 70psi. Then do i set the gun say at 45 psi with the trigger pulled?
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Old 04-16-2010, 06:30 AM
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Guys i have a quick, probably dumb question regarding clear.

For the inital coat, does it help to put it on lightly? or should every coat be wet?
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman
ALL paints come without orange peel.....Its added by the painter....not the gun ....any good painter can paint any paint with any gun and have it look slick.

LOLOLOL, very profound! But don't give the painter all thre credit, an inproper gun, tip, or air supply can sometimes be too much to overcome and changing technique may get the paint down flat, but create other problems like die back.

Brian
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Old 04-16-2010, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94blackcamaroz2
Brian,

This is what I have:

Porter Cable 80 gallon 7.5hp 2-stage compressor - believe its like 19-20cfm
Devillbiss PLUS GFG-670 (tips : 1.3, 1.4, 1.5)

One inline filter for water separation at the compressor and one inline filter for water at the gun before the regulator.

There is no piping in garage. Its just a 50ft hose.
You have what starts out as great "tools", the compressor, and the gun, you are ready to rock. The inline filter is probably robbing CFM and the hose, bad news, very bad news. First off, how big a diameter is it? You need 3/8" MINUMUM. But think about this, run 30-40" of 3/4" pipe to only 20" of hose, with the water trap at the end of that pipe. Your rubber hose doesn't let the air cool down, the water trap can't remove the moisture. Where is your water trap? If it is at the compressor, it is almost doing nothing because the air is so hot.

Look into getting that air piped, it is a BIG difference over running that hose.

Brian
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