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Old 09-12-2010, 08:47 AM
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Painting raw aluminum wheels (reaction) need guidance

Hey guys. First off let me say this (as I'm sure is pretty obvious), I am no professional when it comes to refinishing/body work. I have been on the mechanical side for a couple of years and think I do alright but when it comes to refinishing I tend to struggle. So now that that's out of the way let me tell you what's going on:

My boss wanted a set of wheels painted so I offered to do it for him to try to impress him . So far that's not working out. After consulting a friend of mine that is a VERY good painter and consulting the local paint store I decided to prime the raw aluminum wheels with Standox 1k adhesion primer (red brown). I was told this would etch the aluminum nicely and then I could continue with a 2k primer to fill scratches etc. So I went over the red brown with a Dupont 2k urethane primer. After a couple of hours I sanded the primer flat and then shot Imran 3.5 FT flat black paint. Everything looked great once paint was applied. About 30 minutes later I noticed the paint was lifting and it appeared as though there were thousands of little "bubbles" in my paint. I typically let my primer sit for about 8 hours. Well last night I was wanting to get this done so that it could cure all day today. The primer had been down for 3 hours by time I started laying paint. It appears as if there was a reaction to something and I'm not understanding what exactly happened. If anybody has any advice it would be GREATLY appreciated. Sorry for so many details.




Raw wheels



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They looked good. I was layin it on a little thin but my last coat I got it to lay out pretty good. (Just a crappy pic)





Then it happened


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It looks like I was spraying over popcorn ceilings.

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Last edited by littlejon; 09-12-2010 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 09-12-2010, 10:09 AM
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I am waiting to see what some of the other guys have to say, this is kinda odd.

When I first read your thread name you said "raw" aluminum. Well most wheels aren't "raw", they have a clear of some sort on them, so I was thinking your problem would be that clear got sanded thin and the primer or paint solvents got under it. But that is NOT what your reaction looks like.

Though the "adhesion primer" sounds like junk, a 1K ANYTHING is a waste of time under 2K, think about it. HOWEVER, that isn't going to "create" the result you got. The adhesion may not be as good as if you had epoxy primed them, but it wouldn't create what you have. Nope, something else is going on, it almost looks like you bombed the living hell out of it applying it way too wet. That is what it looks like but on those wheels I would suspect it would have ran all to hell if you applied it as bad as you would have to get what you got.

Nope, I have no answers other than what I have said, nothing for sure just a bunch of "hmmmmmmmmmmmm" thoughts, sorry. Maybe someone else will chime in.

Brian
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Old 09-12-2010, 10:40 AM
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I think I have many things working against me. I have never used this product before. I am more or less a noob of the painting world. I've used Dupont base/clear and feel fairly comfortable but have never used a single stage system. When I applied the first coat it seemed to be very orange peely. So the second coat I layed on thick as if I was getting clear to lay out. And it seemed to look very good until it started blistering. Now I just want some advice on where to go from here. It was also very humid last night.
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Old 09-12-2010, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littlejon
I think I have many things working against me. I have never used this product before. I am more or less a noob of the painting world. I've used Dupont base/clear and feel fairly comfortable but have never used a single stage system. When I applied the first coat it seemed to be very orange peely. So the second coat I layed on thick as if I was getting clear to lay out. And it seemed to look very good until it started blistering. Now I just want some advice on where to go from here. It was also very humid last night.
Ahhhhhhh, you normally don't see "solvent pop" like that, so uniform, but that IS what it sounds like now being you applied it so heavy.

Brian
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Old 09-12-2010, 07:07 PM
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I have zero experience with single stage paint. It looked dry the whole time so I decided to go fairly heavy. Never did it show any signs of sagging but I'm gonna try not so wet. I was going to try to repaint them today but they were too soft to sand on.
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Old 09-14-2010, 10:33 PM
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Well after spending hours sanding I decided to strip them down and start over at square one. I'm gonna try to get some more red brown tomorrow and get started on them after work. If anyone has any tips please don't hesitate. . . . . .
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Old 09-14-2010, 11:06 PM
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The best bet is to epoxy prime them. Black epoxy primer, then your SS black and you will be good to go.

This is one place where I probably would use and etch primer before the epoxy. But to keep it simple, just to epoxy as a primer/sealer and shoot the paint over it non sanded.

Brian
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Old 09-15-2010, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
The best bet is to epoxy prime them. Black epoxy primer, then your SS black and you will be good to go.

This is one place where I probably would use and etch primer before the epoxy. But to keep it simple, just to epoxy as a primer/sealer and shoot the paint over it non sanded.

Brian

From what I understood the Standox red brown was an acid etch which is why everyone suggested I use it. Is the process I'm using not gonna be effective?. . . . ..
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Old 09-15-2010, 08:03 AM
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I don't know those products at all, but a "1k" primer doesn't sound right to me.
It is pretty hard to say not knowing if those wheels really are BARE or is there a coating on them? Aluminum wheels are usually coated with a clear that is pretty tough to get off, or very easy depending on what they put on there. If your wheels still have that coating straight epoxy primer over them will be as good as it gets.

If they are bare aluminum, REALLY bare aluminum then you open the door into a number of levels of how far you can go. To treat the metal with a conditioner for aluminum then epoxy prime is a way. Or acid etch prime it, then epoxy. But I don't know the Standox line at all so I don't know what you have.

But you DO NOT need the urethane primer, that is for sure. Epoxy used as a primer/sealer is the way to go. No sanding, prep it, prime it and then top coat it without touching the wheels (unless there is a blemish you need to repair).

Brian
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Old 09-15-2010, 08:38 AM
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its all about prep

prep work is the most important part. what ever your using needs to strip the paint needs to be neutralized. i recommend using Prep-sol or any wax/grease remover to wipe the wheels down. those pictures look like you have whats known as fisheye. while painting did you spray anything? ie. WD-40, PB Blaster, or anything else near the paint?
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Old 09-15-2010, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gearjammer38
prep work is the most important part. what ever your using needs to strip the paint needs to be neutralized. i recommend using Prep-sol or any wax/grease remover to wipe the wheels down. those pictures look like you have whats known as fisheye. while painting did you spray anything? ie. WD-40, PB Blaster, or anything else near the paint?
Negative. I try to take care to make sure I don't contaminate my work area with anything that isn't compatible. I had a couple of people over when I was painting but for the most part they stayed outside the shop and when we ordered chinese I stressed to them not to get the food anywhere near where I was working (IE: stay outside). I saw a jack off get fired from a local body shop and throw a bag of greasy food on top of the paint booth and it took the guys a while to figure out why everything had fish eye in it.

I think I'm going to try this stuff: Nason 491-17 etch primer. http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/...son/491-17.pdf


And BTW, now that I have used stripper on them there should be no question as to whether or not they are "raw" I wouldn't think. . . . . .
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Old 09-15-2010, 10:45 AM
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My experience painting boat motor stuff is to use a aluminum oxide primer (green) or else it won't last. Just my .02
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Old 09-15-2010, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by MRTS33
My experience painting boat motor stuff is to use a aluminum oxide primer (green) or else it won't last. Just my .02

Well I appreciate everyone's input. It's just a little bit frustrating not having any experience in this area and everyone has their own opinion on different products. Guess I'll just have to figure somethin out.
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Old 09-15-2010, 03:39 PM
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The "green oxide" primer IS etch primer.

Brian
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Old 09-17-2010, 02:51 AM
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4:00 in the morning here. Everything is reprimed. Tired.
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