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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 12-24-2011, 06:45 AM
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There's no measurable advantages nor disadvantages but as some have noted it makes for an easier time doing a clean assembly and easier identification. So if you need to mark your engines or tend to have messy assembly practices it may be of some use there. The rest of it is just good for paint sales.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 12-24-2011, 09:42 AM
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I have painted a 4 engines (2 sbc's & 2 bbc's) with glyptol over the years and have looked inside 'em later without finding any evidence of flaking or peeling. The question is does it help? Not that I could tell...one tip though. When it comes time to paint the lifter gallery useing wine corks in the lifter holes works very well. One thing though...it takes a considerable amount of time to prepare for the glyptol application. Good luck.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 12-24-2011, 09:18 PM
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What happens if the paint starts to lift & peel?

I don't agree about the oil drainback advantage. If you have dainback issues, painting your block aint gonna fix it - lol
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2014, 01:09 PM
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I've had glyptal painted Ram Air heads for almost 30 years now and there is no flaking or chipping of it. There is also not one of iota of sludge anywhere on them. It looks beautiful when applied and if you have to store any parts wherever it is you wont find rust when you decide to reuse them again.

The oil drainback is a speed issue I believe. Ever see that movie "Thin Red Line" ? I think thats the one anyways GI's were on some tropical island and there was a plant with great big leaves that when water droplets hit it it actually accelerated them. They used them to get drinks of rainwater. The speed increase was incredible, one of those things that stick in my warped mind Acceleration was, I think, because of some substance on its surface that has less friction than air maybe. I think Glyptal is like that to some degree. You could test it, Glytptal is not that expensive. Take 2 pieces of 1/2 " iron or aluminum pipe the same length and clean them per the Glyptal prep procedure. Paint the inside of 1 with Glyptal and let cure. Get a funnel that will hold an inverted quart and time an equal test into a bucket vertically and horizontally. Bet you find the Glyptal pipe is faster in both even tho diameter is decreased by paint thickness. Maybe I'll do that when I get a minute.

I like the stuff and am putting together a kind of whacky sbc that everyone thinks will be a dud. I didnt think of painting the intake and exhaust ports with Glyptal but I just might now.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2014, 02:00 PM
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Back in the old days, I think Harley engine cases were painted like that.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 01-02-2014, 04:36 PM
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Wow , thats a great piece of info for me ... in addition to my whacky dud sbc Im building a fairly straightforward 86 sporty motor. Im right at cleaning and prepping the case halves. Hadnt been thinking about that. Know how I want the exterior ... not sure that baking is part of the process or if it would enhance adhesion of the exterior wrinkle coat paint or the Glyptal inside but was thinking of moving my old kitchen oven to the basement for occasional heat, paint curing and possible powder coating when I get my new one.
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Old 01-03-2014, 03:30 PM
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I worked at Southern Company for 33 yrs in generating plants.
All our electric motors were painted with GE Glyptal, even at temps high enough to boil generic crude based oils, the Glyptal showed no discoloring, peeling or detachment.

Smoky Yunick recommended Glyptal in one of his High Performance engine manuals to be used in the crankcase and for intake port smoothing when race guidelines prohibit polishing.

Here's a link to GE's Glyptal product page, the series "1201" products are the ones I have used in the past.
http://www.glyptal.com/Glyptal_Product_Data_Sheets.htm

Last edited by DrVette; 01-03-2014 at 03:34 PM. Reason: insert GE link
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 01-03-2014, 09:47 PM
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I see that it may not be appropriate for exhaust ports with a temperature limit of 135 C/275 F from the spec sheet. If I want to improve port flow I might do better with a high temp counterpart maybe in the exhaust port area although if Smokey Yunick recommends it for intake Im not afraid to try it there. I see the coating companies are doing up exhaust system components (DPR White Lightning ... others) as well as moving engine parts. Must be some benefit to it and possibly a way do-it-yourselfers can get some of that benefit. Exhausts usually rust from the inside out I think ... painting with a high temp thermal barrier that would stay and be slick seems to make sense to me. Coating companies probably have a much better application setup and better product just not sure how much I need or can afford.
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Old 01-04-2014, 02:27 PM
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Sure it's limited in practicality for street usage, however it does offer some benefits.

1. Sealing Porosities in Cast iron & Aluminum,
this eliminates pores for honing debris to hide, releasing when operating temp is achieved. [Improper removal of Silicon Carbide]
Aluminum 4-wheeler & motorcycles; submerged engines soaked with mud absorb debris, NEVER can be cleaned fully.
A rebuild lasts until the Aluminum opens up releasing the mud. Per Kawasaki of Rome and Honda Suzuki of Rome.
Sealing porosities in automatic transmissions, several mfg's had problems with cross pressure issues in valve bodies and transmission flows.

2. Smoothing engine castings to stop retention of debris, allows better oil removal.

3. Race engines benefit from faster oil return to the crankcase.

IMHO the real biggie is locking the pores to keep honing debris from ruining a new build.
How many engine shops have a caustic "Hot Tank" with sodium hydroxide anymore ?

Here's some builders discussing Hot Tank specifics.
Hot tank tempatures € Speed Talk

Last edited by DrVette; 01-04-2014 at 02:33 PM.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 01-06-2014, 06:00 PM
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I really don't know if anyone can measure how quickly oil returns to the bottom end with or without Glyptol paint in the engine, but I've done it for years. I never do it unless the engine is a complete build and freshly cleaned and bare. The last one was done 30 years ago, and still is holding up great. I not only do the lifter valley, but also do the rocker area of the heads. I chamfer and deburr all the holes in the heads and the valley prior to painting.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2015, 10:46 AM
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I hate to be the guy that rehashes this Thread, especially with a purely hypothetical theory. But, wouldn't keeping the Engine's heat more isolated also keep the Engine Bay cooler? Meaning it would keep the air fed to the Engine through the Intake cooler as well? Everyone knows cooler air is more compressed than warm air. And more air flow (I.E. More Compressed Air) to the Engine means more power, correct? Just throwing the thought out there. I could very well be wrong. Any and all opinions or knowledge on the subject are very much invited.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2015, 11:24 PM
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I first learned about painting the valley area when I was a kid reading the How to Hot Rod The Small Block Chevy Book from the Petersen Publishing. They often referenced Smokey in the book. Any way I painted the inside of my 409 with electric motor paint I think in 1986. I only did it because the 409 block valley area is not as steep so to speak has a big block or small block and per the book they said it would improve the gravity oil flow back to the pan. I've had the engine a part a few times changing this and that over the years and the coating is still perfect. For my street application I doubt that it did whole lot but it does look cool. lol Would I do it again???? probably not.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 10-18-2015, 08:09 AM
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I ran the final block finishing hone and washer at a Diesel engine plant. The V8 block cylinders, crank bores and cam bores were honed to size in a temperature controlled automated machining line. They then went to an automated washing machine. Washing filters were changed by flow measurement. Periodically wash water was sampled for particles. The bottom line here was the blocks were cleaner than dishes in a home dish washer.

They then went for final assembly. No internal painting.

For a Christmas bonus a friend and I were given the task of disassembling just over 200 complete warrantee motors. We were paid triple time for working the shut down. We had to take these down to the last nut and bolt. Ten hours a day, seven days a week until we were done. Biggest bonus I ever got.

Out of all of these not a single one had evidence of micro particles in the bearings. There were many broken crankshafts, rods out the side of the block, burned Pistons, dropped valves, broken cams, broken rocker arms, seized oil pumps, and a host of other fatal problems.

Yeah, I painted a few blocks back in the hotrod shop days but it was too time consuming. In looking back, we ran cast iron top fuel motors, transitioned to cast aluminum then billet aluminum and particles falling out of the blocks were not a problem. The vibration of nitro burning motors is a lot more violent than anything street motors ever see.

Personally painting the inside of a motor is just eye candy. I think Smokey used it to deflect the eye from more insidious tricks for which he was famous.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 10-18-2015, 05:22 PM
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I started using Glyptal back in the early 70's. My first engine a 1955 265 got the treatment. I have used Glyptal on every engine I have built since then. I have never had a failure of the coating. I have never found any bits of coating in the oil system or anywhere it shouldn't. I have found more than my share of chunks of red, black, blue and other colors of silicone that has been used and overused on everything in the motors.

I will continue to use Glyptal as long as it is available! Best stuff since sliced bread!
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2016, 10:58 AM
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All the "paint is eyecandy" comments completely miss the point. Glyptal is not simply paint. Glyptal is a hydrophobic, oleophobic coating. Those are big words that tell you glyptal actually repels both oil and water. So, no, you will not get the same effect just by chamfering and polishing the oil return passages. No matter what you do to the oil passages the bare iron or aluminum of the heads will still cling to and absorb oil. With glyptal the oil has nowhere to cling to. So no sludge builds up.

Thermal barrier? Technically, yes. But this objection is way off base. How much heat does the oil absorb from the head surface or lifter valley versus what it absorbs from the oil passages and bearing surfaces? Not to mention the fact that oil cooling is a very small fraction of the total cooling of the engine. I'd be surprised if using glyptal in the typical areas even made a measurable difference in oil temperature. It certainly won't cause the engine temperature to get out of control.

Peeling and flaking are definitely legitimate concerns. There's no doubt that proper preparation is critical. The little bit of research I've done leads me to think that baking is essential to ensure durability. Baking is optional according to GE. But they are almost exclusively focused on electrical applications were flaking is unlikely to cause immediate harm and can easily be spotted and repaired.

I'm likely to use glyptal when I build the new engine for my F-150. Not because I think it's some magic trick. I actually doubt its benefits are measurable. But I see it in the same light as ceramic coating pistons or other minor "improvements". Enough "trivial" improvements eventually add up to something significant. Sort of like the way racers become obsessed with removing every ounce of weight from a car. You'll never see a difference in your ET by removing the radio from the dash. But removing the radio is just one step. By the time you remove the radio, the A/C, the back seat, etc. you will make a difference. By the same token, glyptal is just one step in an effort to maximize engine durability.
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