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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-17-2010, 05:18 PM
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Pantera

Hi.
I am Eddie. I am amazed to see in this forum, the incredible amount of knowledge that all of you guys have!!! Hope you can help.
I am in Quito Ecuador in the middle of the ANDES MOUNTAINS. And, as you can imagine: Don't have "pep boys-car parts stores-or mail order magazines" around the corner!! Don't even think.....On finding knowledgeable help.

I am the proud owner of the only DE TOMASO PANTERA in the country and I think; In South America. (they say there are 3 in Brazil)

The car has a 351-C and has been parked for over 25 years and I decided to get it going, putting every thing new! So I ordered from a "famos magazine" (I won't mention the name.) By the time I realized the "famous magazine" had send me the WRONG CAM!!!.....E V E R Y T H I N G was destroyed!!! Including heads-cam-dist.gear-lifters-push rods- etc.etc. After fixing the heads, I put the old parts back on And start it right up!!! But I am getting backfire through the carburetor (650cfm.Holley) and for months, I can't get read

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Old 09-18-2010, 06:59 AM
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welcome Eddie....sounds like a fun car...Post your questions in the engine forum...I am sure we can answer some of your questions. Can you post some pictures?
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Old 09-18-2010, 05:17 PM
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Pantera

Thak you for answering. (I don't know your name)
Don't really know where to start, since so many things has happen.So I think I better start with the car.
The car is a 1973 DE TOMASO PANTERA. iT HAS 24,000 original miles. Every thing is original and in perfect shape, since it has been parked for 30 some years. I bought it new in Washington D.C And in 1975 I brought it to Ecuador South America

THE ENGINE
Ford 351 C - The parts that follow are new I put in the car. Intake manifold Edelbrock - Carburetor 650cfm. holley - Electric choke - Distributor - Cup & Rotor - Coil - Oil Pump - Gas pump - Time gear & chain - Voltage regulator - Spark plugs - Accel solid wires.
Original Crankshaft (+.10 ) Rods & pistons are in very good shape.
Because of the wrong cam they sent me, the new lifters, Valves and Cam were damage.
THE PROBLEM.
The engine backfires through the carb. Although it holds idiling it's rough and with some coughing. And if I accelerate it backfires, and if I put it in gear it diesoff.
So; I have done every thing I read in your forum! I mean: EVERY THING!!
I've checked for vaccum leaks in the manifold, leaks in the carb. Checked the mixture screws, plugs and wires, timing, vacuum etc.
Finally I got to the back of the car to check the emission coming out from the exhaust pipes. On the left, was dry and clean. (pistons 5-6-7-8) (Remember this is a mid engine car and you see it from the back) But in the right (pistons 1-2-3-4) the fumes were smelling more like gasoline. Check the plugs (in that side) and were a little black. So I pull the valve covers out, and found the rocker arms a little loose and some of the pushrods were bent. (Just a little) but enough to tell me that there is a problem! On the left side,(5-6-7-8) every thing was fine.
Now I have to put new pushrods. But do you think the lifters or the cam could be damage? If so, why is it that on the left side every thing seems to be fine? Do you think I should just put the new pushrods on? Or do you think I am going to have to pull the whold engine out? (it would be the third time!!!)

My wife thinks I pay more attention to the car, than I do to her! She thinks I spend more money in the car, than on her! She thinks I love the car, more than her!! And to make things worse! Long time ago (when things were good) I put a sign on the back of the car that reads: I GOT THIS CAR FOR MY WIFE... WHAT A TRADE!....At this rate, I think she is thinking!!!

So, you guys Help save my car, my family and me. Thanks

Eddie
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Old 09-18-2010, 05:22 PM
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Welcome to the site, I always loved those rides almost bought one back in the early eighties it was blue, man i wish i bought that thing


Cole
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Old 09-18-2010, 05:27 PM
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Sounds to me like it might have jumped time. exspecially now that it has some bent push-rods. So you have it running now?


Cole
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Old 09-18-2010, 07:27 PM
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Pantera

Hi Cole
The car turns on. but only in idiling. But it starts to backfire as soon you give it some gas. What do mean with "jumped time?" And Cole! Don't give up on trying to get a PANTERA! when you get in it, is a diferent world! The power and stability are unique! I have been in other sport cars, but nothing like this one. Besides, it keeps going up in price.
Eddie
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Old 09-18-2010, 08:35 PM
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Hey Eddie, What i mean about jumping time is you probably need to replace the timing chain and gears, Alot of times when a engine jumps time it can bend push-rods. I am thinking you need a new timing set for it. JMO



Cole
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Old 09-18-2010, 08:44 PM
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I see where you have already installed the timing set, So you might have the (Plug Wires Crossed) re-check the wires. and it could be just out of time i would re-check that also( Re-Check The Timing). And you said the cam was damaged so what cam is in the engine now? Did you get a new cam and lifters or use the old one? If so and you did use the old cam it could very well be your problem.JMO


Cole

Last edited by eloc431962; 09-18-2010 at 08:50 PM.
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Old 09-19-2010, 06:27 PM
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Thank you JMO for folloing up Yes, I put the original cam and the original lifters back on the car. This S of Bs. send me the wrong CAM!! And it ruin every thing new I had on. The old CAM, in reality, I didn't think are so old! or the lifters. (please forgive my ignorance) The car has only 24 thousand miles, and it was runing fine! My mistake was to try to do better. This people from the famous magazine that send me the new parts COD To Ecuador South America have no idea the trouble they couse me. (nor that they give a hoot!) Just to give you an idea. In this god forsaking coutry, and after months of paper work, I end up paying about 75% more of the original cost of the parts! just so you can get them out of customs.
This car is my hobby and I love mechanics! But my problem is that I am an Art Teacher! So; when I ask you... what "jumping time" means? don't be surprise! Thank you very much for taking your time, and shearing your knowlege.

I pull the valve covers out, and from the side of the pistons 1-2-3-4 I found the rocker arms kind loose, and some pushrods a little vend! So I figure I have to replace the pushrods. The other side (5-6-7-8) are fine! My question is: Do you think the CAM or the lifters or valves are damage? Is there a way to check before having to pull every thing out? Having on mind all the hassle I will have to go through if I have to get new parts?

Thank you JMO

Eddie
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Old 09-19-2010, 06:52 PM
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you need to make sure the rocker arm geometry is ok and the push rod length is OK, put a dial indicator on the end of the intake push rod and roll the engine over by hand with no plugs in it using a ratchet & socket on the nose of the dampener pulley. Write down the # and compare the cam lift with another intake cylinders cam lift. And so on You can do a run down on all and compare and see how much the difference is between the rest of them. Or pull the cam and physically check it. Maybe someone else will see your thread and have a better way. But this is how i do it and if you do not have a dial indicator then you will have to watch with your eye and feel with your finger placed on top of the rocker arms as you turn it over. I hope i am making sense for you sometimes these things are hard to explain.
What you are doing with what i have told you is checking valve travel.

Cole

Last edited by eloc431962; 09-19-2010 at 07:12 PM. Reason: left explanation out
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Old 09-19-2010, 07:29 PM
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I was also going to tell you as far as a bent valve. You probably need to do a compression check on all cylinders. And you can also put air on the cylinders one at a time as you would do a compression test and listen for leaks from the valve. And another way you can sometimes tell is remove the plugs and bring the piston down to the bottom and shine a flashlight down the plug hole and check for marks on top of the pistons. A pretty good indication the valves are bent also. And you are sure it's in time and no plug wires are crossed ?
I really do wish you luck with this it's a very nice ride.

Cole
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Old 09-19-2010, 08:58 PM
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Start with the easiest and cheapest solutions first. If it idles and then backfires when gassed, it could be your distributor is off one spot, or you're too lean on the carb. Check the float adjustment to ensure gas is just below the sight hole if you have a holley. On the distro, find TDC and re-install it.

Sexy car! Welcome to the board.
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Old 09-19-2010, 09:03 PM
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That is one of the coolest looking cars I have ever seen.
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Old 09-19-2010, 09:10 PM
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Pantera

Yes it makes perfect sense! I will try to get a micrometer and measure the lift of the rocker-arms if one or more are different, it will show that the cam or the lifter could be damage. (maybe both) Am I right? I imagine the rocker-arm have to be with the proper torque (about 35 lbs.) before doing the measuring.Tomorrow is a working day for me. I will let you know as soon as I can.
The rocker-arms and the push-rods are out of the car I have to go hunting all over the city trying to get the proper push rods. There is not a "Pep Boys"around the corner here
An other thing JMO, that I probably could not explain correctly, The cam, the lifters and the rocker-arms that are in the car now, are the original that come with the car. The new ones, were all destroyed and had to throw a way! I am going to do every thing you say
Thanks!!!!

Edgar
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Old 09-19-2010, 10:56 PM
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A later era pantera came in as a partial trade on a Acura NSX. Still can not believe it had a 302 ford with a performer intake, and 600 cfm performer carb. If memory serves me the cam was only .420" lift. Even on with cleveland V8 the engine is a non interference fit. So no major damage should occur from a tooth off/skipped timing. Go with a valve seal change. Cold time it from a mic ed true TDC. Maybe a lifter got plugged up or froze.

These cars were very fast for a mild 302 with a AFB 4bbl. Awesome engine tone. A 351C must be nice.
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