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Old 07-07-2007, 02:45 AM
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pcm tuning anyone 383 vortec efi ?

ok here's the deal 97 vortec efi 383 silverado 4l80e
1.52 compcams roller tip rockers
compcams 206/212 adv. .485 in /.493 ex with 1.52 rockers lift 112 lsa
9.8-1 compression forged pistons
6.0 4340 forged rods
3.75 stroke scat cast crank
170cc e-tec heads 1.94in/1.55ex 64cc chambers

didn't notice a big difference over the 350 could it be the timing ? i know that 1* can make a 30-40 hp difference.

also getting p1345 code crank and cam sensor correlation . please help

it is also running hot 210* added 10% timing and also took way 10% timing and added 5% then 10% then 15% fuel because i thought it was running lean nothing changed but a little performance gain i'm thought it was running way to lean because its at 210* could it be the TIMING ? can the torque management have anything to do with this ? should i get a custom tune w4me, westers, nelson, pcm4less, or should i get efi live and start learning how to do my own tuning ? i'm keeping my truck for a good while so would this be in my best interest ?

i think that the tm is killing my performance.

like i said i didn't notice that much of a diff. from 350 to 383 still can't break the tires loose!!!!

could it be the tm ? thanks in advance

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Old 07-08-2007, 02:15 PM
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You did not change the engine a whole lot....

The heads are not going to do much more than the stock vortecs...sorry. The cam is small, and 30 cubes is just not worth much HP.

I would suggest that you first buy a programmer from a reputable company designed to your engine. You need a very good understanding of engine dynamics to tune your own EFI, so if you plan to go that route start doing your homework. I would also add a free flowing exhaust if you have not already.

Gearing is probably also an issue with oversize tires and highway gears. Of course you will loose mileage for low end grunt.
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Old 07-08-2007, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboS10
You did not change the engine a whole lot....

The heads are not going to do much more than the stock vortecs...sorry. The cam is small, and 30 cubes is just not worth much HP.

I would suggest that you first buy a programmer from a reputable company designed to your engine. You need a very good understanding of engine dynamics to tune your own EFI, so if you plan to go that route start doing your homework. I would also add a free flowing exhaust if you have not already.

Gearing is probably also an issue with oversize tires and highway gears. Of course you will loose mileage for low end grunt.
first the heads are fine for a 4x4 i was after port velocity for bottom end. plus they flow 20% more on the exhaust port. and i do have a comp cams flash tuner. the pcm is programed for the cam.

here's some info on it.

http://fuelairspark.com/Products/det...ammer/over.asp

and i've seen engines making 450 hp and 460 tq on a 383 with these heads and they are good for a .575 lift so i have room for improvement also the stock pcm will only allow me to rev to 5800 or 5900 so why would i want a head that wouldl make power to 6500 rpm's and most importantly the stock FI system will only support 400 hp anyways and i do have headers with high flow cats. b

Last edited by 383silverado; 07-08-2007 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 07-08-2007, 03:13 PM
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Well, you can get pissy because I told you that you replaced heads that were perfectly fine for your goals, or you can be open to learning for the future. Vortec heads will do all that you are looking for....period.

Those stock 23lb injectors will not support 400 HP comfortably. You need a set of 30lb injectors and a retune from someone who understands engine dynamics. I have a set I might part with for cheap.... You cant just "add 10%" fuel. That does not work. You are adding to the global fuel multiplier which adds fuel across the entire fuel curve. You have to retune the curve to the engine to make any real progress. Again, get someone to do this for you if you that can build you a custom tune.
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Old 07-08-2007, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboS10
Well, you can get pissy because I told you that you replaced heads that were perfectly fine for your goals, or you can be open to learning for the future. Vortec heads will do all that you are looking for....period.

Those stock 23lb injectors will not support 400 HP comfortably. You need a set of 30lb injectors and a retune from someone who understands engine dynamics. I have a set I might part with for cheap.... You cant just "add 10%" fuel. That does not work. You are adding to the global fuel multiplier which adds fuel across the entire fuel curve. You have to retune the curve to the engine to make any real progress. Again, get someone to do this for you if you that can build you a custom tune.
Vortec engines don't use a convention fuel injector you can only increase their output with higher fuel pressure. A guy here in town has a 99 fullsize tahoe or blazer that he stroked to 383. He told me he put in a high pressure pump (70 or 80psi I think) and had it chipped. It has 33" tires and will roast them no problem.
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Old 07-08-2007, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RippinRon
Vortec engines don't use a convention fuel injector you can only increase their output with higher fuel pressure. A guy here in town has a 99 fullsize tahoe or blazer that he stroked to 383. He told me he put in a high pressure pump (70 or 80psi I think) and had it chipped. It has 33" tires and will roast them no problem.

can you find out his cam specs ? and and the 99 pcm doesn't use a chip, it has to be flashed. i am assuming that he had all the torque management removed.
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Old 07-08-2007, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboS10
Well, you can get pissy because I told you that you replaced heads that were perfectly fine for your goals, or you can be open to learning for the future. Vortec heads will do all that you are looking for....period.
i am not getting pissy about anything, it's just that i've done my homework before i started this project and i have other post in here stating that both my heads were cracked, thats why i replaced the heads and instead of getting another set that are prone to cracking and that won't support a lift of .450 or .470 stock let alone the weight savings .so thats why i decided to get the e-tec heads.

my truck is running pretty good now is there any way that a person who knows how to tune dial it in a bit more from the tune that is in it now ? didn't mean come off so aggressive . again thanks for your help and time.

Last edited by 383silverado; 07-08-2007 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 07-08-2007, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 383silverado
can you find out his cam specs ? and and the 99 pcm doesn't use a chip, it has to be flashed. i am assuming that he had all the torque management removed.
If I happen to see em I will. It may be newer not sure but its a post 98 2 door 4x4 full size blazer. I don't know him I just saw a 383 sticker on his back window when getting gas one day and being a gear head I had to inquire. This was back in the winter. I'm not 100% sure he did anything with the computer but he must have, he did say about the high pressure pump for sure. I know it works well though he cleaned up at a local tractor pull last year.

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Old 07-08-2007, 06:07 PM
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You can raise pressure on any injector and increase flow. However, this is not the best or preferred way to do this since fuel pressure in that range can be dangerous. Alot of the add on superchargers use an FMU(fuel managment unit) to raise pressure as boost rises. This is a bandaid approach to properly sized injectors and retuning of the ECU.

The heads that you picked are fine, but the point I was trying to make is that they are just not going to gain you much over the stockers in the power department. You seem upset with power output so that is why I mentioned this since some people automatically assume an aftermarket head will make more power. The trick is in getting the combo right. I think you have picked good parts and that you just need to do some tuning.

As I said before, you can not just add 10% fuel or spark here and there and get a well tuned engine. What you need to do is call hypertech or some similiar company that can send you a programmer to match your engine. You might be able to find a good programmer in your area that can do this. More and more people are starting to learn this stuff and in the big cities you can usually find someone that can dyno tune it as well. If you do this make sure you find someone with capability to tune with WB02 and a dyno. They shoudl be able to datalog your runs and tweak fuel and timing curves from that data.

In my S-10 I can datalog everything while making test passes and then take the laptop in and tune the engine on the kitchen table, go back outside and dump the changes to the ECU, and go back out for more logging. It only took about three test runs after rough tuning to get everything dialed in.
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Old 07-08-2007, 06:45 PM
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i am not upset with my 383, i know there is alot to tuning an efi engine and i know i have to be patient about this because i also know that 1* in timing can make a 30-40 hp difference.

what do you think about wide band o2 sensor ? is this just a tool for tuning an engine ?

http://fuelairspark.com/Products/details/meter/over.asp

Last edited by 383silverado; 07-08-2007 at 06:53 PM.
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Old 07-08-2007, 07:02 PM
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Yeah, that is a nice WB02 sensor. I did not read alot about it, but you really need it to have MAP and RPM input if possible. With those two points and knowledge of your fuel and timing maps, you could do some good with tuning it.

One thing you want to remember is that timing has a ton to do with responsivness. I like to run alot of initial timing with as quick of an advance as possible. Most OEMs have slow initial and a smooth curve which makes the engine lazy rather than snappy. You can set the timing curve just like you can an old distributor. I run 22 degrees initial with 36 degrees in by ~3000 RPM. I back out ~1/2 degree for every lb of boost and bump it up to 45 degrees total under vacuum for cruising. You can do just about whatever you want if you can get full tunability of the timing.
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Old 07-08-2007, 07:29 PM
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ok i have my distributor as far as possible counter clockwise and it seems to be running better the more i turn it counter clock wise, so i'm thinking it is a timing problem.

remember that the vortec cap has 4 spark plug wires on the right and 4 on the left thats why i can't turn it any more

Last edited by 383silverado; 07-08-2007 at 09:59 PM.
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Old 07-08-2007, 08:48 PM
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I would guess that the reason you are having to turn it further is because the engine wants more timing than the factory setup. If you rotate the distributor you will add more total advance as well which you want to be careful with. You are suppose to time the distributor to the idle advance setting in the ECU which I imagine is around 8 degrees.
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Old 07-08-2007, 11:35 PM
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i found the reason for the p1345 code it was the fast flash tuner it will NOT support 383 correctly but it worked very very good in the vortec 350 so it might be for sale soon if comp cams can't tune it for a 383

it will support these vehicles though
Chevrolet
Full-size Trucks / Vans (gas) 4.3L, 5.0L, 5.7L, 7.4L 1996-97 170383
S10 4.3L 1996-97 170383
Blazer 4.3L 1996-97 170383

GMC
Full-size Trucks / Vans (gas) 4.3L, 5.0L, 5.7L, 7.4L 1996-97 170383
Sonoma 4.3L 1996-97 170383
Jimmy 4.3L 1996-97 170383
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Old 07-17-2007, 02:01 PM
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well as you all know i was having timing problems i thought it had something to do with the programer but the programer had nothing to do with the timing. i found the problem today the hose coming from the map sensor was pluged/ melted that is what this was causing the timing problems. the ecm/pcm uses the map sensor to control fuel delivery and ignition timing.

so i guess that the fast tuner will support a 383 no problem!!! seeing that it has 3 setting econo,towing and high performance it will work just fine if you don't want to mess with dyno's and chips . remember you will have to set it for a custom cam

available for 96+ chevy's
http://fuelairspark.com/Products/det...ammer/over.asp

here's new question turbos10 my stock spark advance is set to 22* @ idle i added 10% = 24* or so with the hand held.

i still don't think that i am getting the most out of my engine the throttle response is all most right how much more spark advance do you think i should add 2 or 3 more dergrees ?
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