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Old 06-22-2005, 05:55 PM
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PDF Hydrogen Conversion.

Found this last night. Writeup has construction plans and schematics to convert your engine to hydrogen power. I had to zip the file, server wont accept pdf...? Copyright is in the middle of the document, im pretty sure that says its okay to distribute....
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File Type: zip HydrogenConversionPDF.zip (233.1 KB, 75 views)

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Old 06-22-2005, 07:33 PM
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Hmmm...funny how these "inventors" never seem to mention the hydrogen embrittlement of the various metals used in automobile engine construction in their plans?

Must be an oversight.

Willys, send out the black suit dudes...we got another one to whack.
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Old 06-22-2005, 08:32 PM
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funny how these "inventors" never seem to mention the hydrogen embrittlement of the various metals
pg 4 #'s 6 & 7
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Old 06-22-2005, 09:06 PM
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I'll wait for my ceramic engine before I begin assembly.
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Old 06-23-2005, 08:10 AM
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Well you may not be too interested in experimenting but I am.

I do have some technical questions.

Like what voltage does stainless erode in water?

What exactly is used for a TPS? a standard TBI TPS or ????

=====================
And most importantly....

No system is 100% efficient so if X amount of energy is put into breaking the water down won't less than 100% X be avalable for combustion and of that won't even less energy be avalable to produce the voltage that is required to break the water down?
It almost sounds like the guy who wants to run an electric motor to run a generator to make electricity to run the electric motor with extra power to mave a vehicle?

Last edited by NXS; 06-23-2005 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 06-23-2005, 09:20 AM
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Hmmm.

I had a lengthy post on this, but I fat-fingered my browser and lost it all.

Anyhow, there are a lot of practical problems with the setup as described. Beyond that, though, the real problem is that it takes some amount of energy to separate Hydrogen and Oxygen from water.

That energy has to come from recombining those two gases, along with some additional oxygen from the air, inside a horribly inefficient internal combustion engine which, besides moving the vehicle, has to generate sufficient energy to run the ongoing electrolysis process.

Take away the vehicle and just try to make the system work with just a hydrogen/oxygen generator and an engine. I don't see how it can be self-supporting just to keep the engine idling unless you add more energy to the system. Separating hydrogen and oxygen is always going to take more energy than recombining them will generate. You're losing a lot of that energy to heat loss and other inefficiencies. The energy has to come from somewhere, and just adding water into the system doesn't do you any good. Worse, since water is a byproduct of the combustion and also the "fuel" where is any energy coming from at all? Why not just ditch the tank and reroute the exhaust pipe through a condensor and pipe the water right back into the system?

In fact, if my chemistry and physics isn't too rusty, the entire process of separating the water and recombining it in the ICE is a net consumer of energy. That is, you'd have to be supplying that whole system with energy just to keep it running at all, much less power a moving vehicle on top of that.

That's not to say that an engine running on a hydrogen/oxygen mixture couldn't be made to work, if the gas mixture was generated off-site from some other energy source. You're still looking at having to put energy into the system, but that's all that any fuel is - an energy storage device. The problem though with this particular energy-storage device, is that you'd be running around with a pressurized tank of premixed, highly explosive gases. Think the Hindenburg -- but without that lengthy delay of having to combine the hydrogen with the oxygen in the air. One spark, and the entire contents of the storage tank explodes simultaneously.

The only way I could see any of this working would be if you could set up the electrolysis off the vehicle to separate hydrogen and oxygen and collect them separately, using some other energy source ( a free one would be a bonus). You could probably vent the oxygen into the atmosphere - no sense carrying it around when there's plenty in the air to support combustion. What you'd be left with is a hydrogen generation plant that makes enough hydrogen to be stored in a pressurized tank on a vehicle to run a purely hydrogen-powered ICE. Those are some discussions for a whole different thread, or series of threads, including, if you had a source of pure hydrogen, why not ditch the ICE altogether and go with a fuel cell and electric motor (might want to keep the oxygen with that setup) ?
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Old 06-23-2005, 09:31 PM
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