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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2013, 03:57 PM
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oh now your telling me what they said, got it..
they got sued for pulling this crap in this state..

if little shops in cali are getting 130 hour labor.. god bless them..
as the rest of the world isn't charging that

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2013, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
oh now your telling me what they said, got it..
they got sued for pulling this crap in this state..

if little shops in cali are getting 130 hour labor.. god bless them..
as the rest of the world isn't charging that
Like I said I am not telling you what they said, I am merely saying what happens here and what I have experienced in California. That goes for working with the insurance and labor rates, SF bay area is what I am reporting on.

Brian
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:48 PM
put up or shut up
 

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sorry big boy, but if your shop isn't on the "list" the adjusters drag their feet..
you know the list that is nothing more than a kickback list.. we'll send work to you. and we get the labor rate we want to pay.. any other field that be illegal..
JUST KEEP'N IT REAL
a year before I started to do body work I got in a fender bender and the insurance company wanted me to take it to their drp shop. I said I wanted it done at the dealer with dealer parts and they said if I chose that route it would take longer for it to be authorized and they were pretty damn hard to talk to about it even though by law it's my decision. The VW shop manager told me all about my rights and how the insurance companies work. It took about two weeks just to get it started and I called the adjuster and he didn't even return my messages, but he did say I'd have my car in a couple days if I chose their drp, but I didn't want their drp. After that the next gripe was a butt match and at the time this was a brand new car with 15k miles on it. Once again the shop manager called me and explained to me about blending and how he pushed for it and the insurance company didn't budge so he told me to call and ask for the blend. I can't even recall if I got the blend and I'd have to inspect the car to know for sure but think it was a butt match and they did a damn good job on the car.

All in all the car got done but didn't have it for 3 weeks for a simple bumper and fender job and it was pulling teeth just to get them to comply with the law. Their business model is all about profit and to think millions of people give them money each month FOR NOTHING and one out of what?? 100 people get in an accident every month. So what are they even griping about? GREEDY BASTARDS!
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Old 04-12-2013, 11:01 PM
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a year before I started to do body work I got in a fender bender and the insurance company wanted me to take it to their drp shop. I said I wanted it done at the dealer with dealer parts and they said if I chose that route it would take longer for it to be authorized and they were pretty damn hard to talk to about it even though by law it's my decision. The VW shop manager told me all about my rights and how the insurance companies work. It took about two weeks just to get it started and I called the adjuster and he didn't even return my messages, but he did say I'd have my car in a couple days if I chose their drp, but I didn't want their drp. After that the next gripe was a butt match and at the time this was a brand new car with 15k miles on it. Once again the shop manager called me and explained to me about blending and how he pushed for it and the insurance company didn't budge so he told me to call and ask for the blend. I can't even recall if I got the blend and I'd have to inspect the car to know for sure but think it was a butt match and they did a damn good job on the car.

All in all the car got done but didn't have it for 3 weeks for a simple bumper and fender job and it was pulling teeth just to get them to comply with the law. Their business model is all about profit and to think millions of people give them money each month FOR NOTHING and one out of what?? 100 people get in an accident every month. So what are they even griping about? GREEDY BASTARDS!
I agree with everything you said. Yep, they can be a beach to work with and they ARE greedy. We get them to pay the rental car every time. I will be damned if I can figure out how they save money by having us try AM parts or to change only one suspension component that you KNOW others are damaged but without PROOF like an alignment print out, they often want you to put the one you KNOW, then align it, then put the next part on. We charge them for every alignment (labeled "Diagnostic alignment" on the RO) and we charge them with no overlap time for changing every part. We say with a smile, "If you would like us to change every part we know it needs and align it every time, it's ok, we are in the business to work on cars" and we explain how we will charge for all the alignments and with no overlap on the parts. We make it very clear, they will try to weasel out but we charge them and we get paid every time. We also as I mentioned get them to pay the rental. And that is the part I wish I could see the numbers, they pay for a rental car for 5 days while they try to save $75 on an AM fender? I don't get it.

One of the things we do is we take all the crap for our customer. We don't ask our customer to deal with it, we do the leg work, we do the talking the calling the faxing the emailing and we do the car right and everyone is happy. We make it clear to the customer to relax and we will handle it all.

Brian
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Old 04-12-2013, 11:08 PM
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dinger: if you base your shop decision on how long it will take to get your car back, that not really a good way to go about it. It will depend on how much work is involved. A simple bumper cover repair can take 1 day, but a large hit replacing internal structure and suspension could take way more than 5 days. Best to go by reputation. I am sure the shop is not sitting idle waiting for your accident, so they might be booked for that week (or more) and will get it in when a spot opens up - so then there would be "rotation". A 'general rule' is you can figure 6 hours of repair would be 1 day in the shop.
I've worked at Golden State Collision and Body Craft. Golden State is the biggest and most successful shop out here but by far not the best. The biggest knock on both those shops was how fast they wanted cars to go back together after being painted and how quickly they'd cut and buff it. At Body Hack I made REAL good money but it was like playing that board game operation cause you'd literally be putting things together as soon as they cooled down. I once scratched a door on a prius with the door handle gasket!

I think the best shops are the smallest shops ran by a prideful journeyman who will swallow costs here and there to do the right thing, barely making it, but doing things right. These shops don't make a lot of money but they will take their time cause they won't just start buffing on a car 5 minutes after it gets out of the booth. My opinion is that when the shop is managed by a guy that hasn't done the work and isn't prideful of good work then there's no pride within tugging at him and forcing him to do the right thing.
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Old 04-13-2013, 01:18 AM
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a year before I started to do body work I got in a fender bender and the insurance company wanted me to take it to their drp shop. I said I wanted it done at the dealer with dealer parts and they said if I chose that route it would take longer for it to be authorized and they were pretty damn hard to talk to about it even though by law it's my decision. The VW shop manager told me all about my rights and how the insurance companies work. It took about two weeks just to get it started and I called the adjuster and he didn't even return my messages, but he did say I'd have my car in a couple days if I chose their drp, but I didn't want their drp. After that the next gripe was a butt match and at the time this was a brand new car with 15k miles on it. Once again the shop manager called me and explained to me about blending and how he pushed for it and the insurance company didn't budge so he told me to call and ask for the blend. I can't even recall if I got the blend and I'd have to inspect the car to know for sure but think it was a butt match and they did a damn good job on the car.

All in all the car got done but didn't have it for 3 weeks for a simple bumper and fender job and it was pulling teeth just to get them to comply with the law. Their business model is all about profit and to think millions of people give them money each month FOR NOTHING and one out of what?? 100 people get in an accident every month. So what are they even griping about? GREEDY BASTARDS!
my 1997 f 150 with 3500 miles got hit on hyway(traffic stopped, he didn't)
the insurance co. wanted to use used rear sping(drivers side) mine u this was first year of new body style.. and wanted to fix the bed side(fiberglass) that was smashed at rear and where it hit the cab..
and was cracked up the center over wheel.. aftermarket tail light..
r & r the front fender and repair grill ( car pushed me into barrier) how to you repair a plastic chrome grill?? glue it and hope no one see's it..??
wrote for used tail gate.. and bumper.. etc..
this for a fully loaded xlt with under 4000 miles on it.. it took forever to get them to use new FORD parts.. and this wasn't a cut rate insurance co. either.. took a month before they started because of the fight over parts, and they didn't car as I didn't have rental coverage( pontless when you have 3 cars)
IF I took it to their listed shop my new truck would've got junkyard and aftermarket junk.. I took it to the place me dad worked.. and thats the only reason it got fixed correctly..
I'd not take anycar to any shop on their list.. as they will half *** the job to get it done and make money.. with the hope that you don't find out what junk they installed. and/or sell the car before their work starts failing..
wifes sport trac ,she took to a shop on list.. 5 months later the bumper is peeling.. the fender that was written to replace.. was hammered and filled one that was on vehicle.. the glued the fiberglass header together that houses the headlights and drill area.. they glued the headlight together but was payed for new.. was payed for new map sensor.. never replaced, payed to blend hood and door. not done.. overspray everywhere..
I'd never take a car to that shop again. the only reason they are still open is that insurance list .. and the insurance co. sending people there.. because they'll screw the customers car over to save the insurane co. money..
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 04-13-2013, 10:06 AM
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Now, let's talk AM and used parts. A subject I LOATH and you guys are absolutely right it is RIDICULOUS what they are doing with this aftermarket part junk.

But let's get something straight here, go and read your policy guys, YOUR policy says they will use AM and used parts! That is one reason your insurance was so cheap. You signed a policy that says they will use AM and used parts, check it out.....

Now that doesn't stop them from using them on your car when you are a claimant and not even insured thru them, but you can get out of it much easier. Like I said, we don't make that the customers problem, we fight, we trail fit the AM parts and provide photos to the insurance and then put the OEM.

Most insurance companies have guidelines on how old the car has to be before AM can be used, one year, two years old, some a little longer they MUST have OEM parts, after that it's wide open hunting. But if the car is a year old with 3500 miles most insurance companies (the ones we DRP with) wouldn't ask us to use AM. On the used, again, this is a California state law thing. The parts have to come from a car from the same year with the same or lower miles. So in reality, so what, it's used, so is your car once you drive it off the lot. So if you have a truck that is same model year with 3500 miles the wrecking yard has to provide documentation that the part is off a truck the same year and has 3500 miles or less on the odometer.

They don't always do this, the shop has to do this for you. If you don't want used parts all you need is people who work together. If I called the wrecking yard I deal with and said "I need a fender for a 2012 Focus with 25,000 miles on it you don't have one right"? And the guy would send me over documentation that he doesn't and I would order a new OEM fender and put the documentation in the file. To tell you the truth this has never happened if I were to ask they would do it in a heart beat for me.

Brian

Brian
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:52 AM
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Now, let's talk AM and used parts. A subject I LOATH and you guys are absolutely right it is RIDICULOUS what they are doing with this aftermarket part junk.

But let's get something straight here, go and read your policy guys, YOUR policy says they will use AM and used parts! That is one reason your insurance was so cheap. You signed a policy that says they will use AM and used parts, check it out.....

Now that doesn't stop them from using them on your car when you are a claimant and not even insured thru them, but you can get out of it much easier. Like I said, we don't make that the customers problem, we fight, we trail fit the AM parts and provide photos to the insurance and then put the OEM.

Most insurance companies have guidelines on how old the car has to be before AM can be used, one year, two years old, some a little longer they MUST have OEM parts, after that it's wide open hunting. But if the car is a year old with 3500 miles most insurance companies (the ones we DRP with) wouldn't ask us to use AM. On the used, again, this is a California state law thing. The parts have to come from a car from the same year with the same or lower miles. So in reality, so what, it's used, so is your car once you drive it off the lot. So if you have a truck that is same model year with 3500 miles the wrecking yard has to provide documentation that the part is off a truck the same year and has 3500 miles or less on the odometer.

They don't always do this, the shop has to do this for you. If you don't want used parts all you need is people who work together. If I called the wrecking yard I deal with and said "I need a fender for a 2012 Focus with 25,000 miles on it you don't have one right"? And the guy would send me over documentation that he doesn't and I would order a new OEM fender and put the documentation in the file. To tell you the truth this has never happened if I were to ask they would do it in a heart beat for me.

Brian

Brian
sorry, not on a 4 month old truck wih 3500 miles..
yes I can see it on a 4 y/o car with 80+k on it..
but NEW.. sorry,, most times the aftermarket parts are not that much cheaper, after the shop has to make it fit..
used isn't a time saver either as the prep time take longer..

also used means different things, where you are in sunny cali. 5 y/o sheet metal might as well be new.. here not so much.. it's already got the rust bug..

yes the policy states they will use "like and kind" does NOT SAY aftermarket nor used.. just like and kind..

on a car thats 3-4y/o and 80k I'd rather they used used parts over the aftermarket junk..

but when you have a new vehicle and you are paying for full coverage and it's not cheap.. I want it fixed back to new.. not fixed back to what a 80k mile car would be like.. NEW
the insurance co. make bank on people.. pay in 16 years and the one time I need my new vehicle fixed they are gonna butcher it.. HELL NO..
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Old 04-13-2013, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
sorry, not on a 4 month old truck wih 3500 miles..
yes I can see it on a 4 y/o car with 80+k on it..
but NEW.. sorry,, most times the aftermarket parts are not that much cheaper, after the shop has to make it fit..
used isn't a time saver either as the prep time take longer..

also used means different things, where you are in sunny cali. 5 y/o sheet metal might as well be new.. here not so much.. it's already got the rust bug..

yes the policy states they will use "like and kind" does NOT SAY aftermarket nor used.. just like and kind..

on a car thats 3-4y/o and 80k I'd rather they used used parts over the aftermarket junk..

but when you have a new vehicle and you are paying for full coverage and it's not cheap.. I want it fixed back to new.. not fixed back to what a 80k mile car would be like.. NEW
the insurance co. make bank on people.. pay in 16 years and the one time I need my new vehicle fixed they are gonna butcher it.. HELL NO..
You are absolutely right I have fought HARD for this often, you are absolutely right. AM parts have NO PLACE on anything under a few years old. They have their place, on a 2000 car that has 150K on it, perfect. But on a 3 year old Toyota Vensa? Not on your life, and I fought for that owner to get the OEM parts.

"Like and kind" ARE aftermarket or used, it isn't spelt out clear for you to understand but that is exactly what it means and that is the deception the insurance companies play. "Like" what the hell is "Like", it means "similar", so they can put a "similar" part on your car. That is all there is to it, it's in your policy.

There are a few companies that don't push it. One was sued, and lost a multi million dollar class action law suit. They will NOT use aftermarket parts of any kind, the company, State Farm. The only ones they can use are "industry standards", that being radiators, A/C condensers and tires and brake pads, that sort of thing. There are others like Farmers who will want us to put an aftermarket structural part like a radiator support on a week old car! We had it, a year or so old Accord, we told them to tow it out of here if they wanted that, they gave in and gave us our OEM support. Allstate, I love that one, they push about every kinda junk you can imagine. Yet on their motorcycle insurance commercial they say they don't use aftermarket parts, and do you notice it's on the motorcycle commercial only, not their car commercials? They are a bear, but again, we do the fighting for the customer so it's no big deal for them. And no matter what we use we have a life time of ownership warranty. Same warranty on every single part no matter if it's repaired, remanufactured, used, aftermarket, it don't matter.

Brian
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Old 04-13-2013, 11:29 AM
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You are absolutely right I have fought HARD for this often, you are absolutely right. AM parts have NO PLACE on anything under a few years old. They have their place, on a 2000 car that has 150K on it, perfect. But on a 3 year old Toyota Vensa? Not on your life, and I fought for that owner to get the OEM parts.

"Like and kind" ARE aftermarket or used, it isn't spelt out clear for you to understand but that is exactly what it means and that is the deception the insurance companies play. "Like" what the hell is "Like", it means "similar", so they can put a "similar" part on your car. That is all there is to it, it's in your policy.

There are a few companies that don't push it. One was sued, and lost a multi million dollar class action law suit. They will NOT use aftermarket parts of any kind, the company, State Farm. The only ones they can use are "industry standards", that being radiators, A/C condensers and tires and brake pads, that sort of thing. There are others like Farmers who will want us to put an aftermarket structural part like a radiator support on a week old car! We had it, a year or so old Accord, we told them to tow it out of here if they wanted that, they gave in and gave us our OEM support. Allstate, I love that one, they push about every kinda junk you can imagine. Yet on their motorcycle insurance commercial they say they don't use aftermarket parts, and do you notice it's on the motorcycle commercial only, not their car commercials? They are a bear, but again, we do the fighting for the customer so it's no big deal for them. And no matter what we use we have a life time of ownership warranty. Same warranty on every single part no matter if it's repaired, remanufactured, used, aftermarket, it don't matter.

Brian
body shop warranty's are nice,useless junk, as they offer it. because the industry knows full well that a hit car 85% of the time finds it's way as a trade in within 1.5 years.. if not sooner.. not all mind you. but a ton..
almost every shop offers a warranty because they know this..lol
same reason autoparts offer it.. they know most people don't keep cars that long anymore..
they hated me, as I put 460k on my 89 grand mark..
many people have picked up there car loved that it looked like it was never hit, and where off to pick up it's replacement.. and trade it in..
todays new cars with all the electronics, I'd never keep past 4-5 years..
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Old 04-13-2013, 11:42 AM
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You are very right, like many warranty's the company counts on that, but if the consumer choses to use it, it's pretty darn useful. We have provided it many times, which is one of the reasons I am still with this company for going on 13 years this June. It feels good to tell a customer we WILL take car of an issue be it 1 month, one year or ten years from now. The company has been here for over 30 years and I have seen more than a few cars come back that were repaired 10-20 and 30 years ago! They have very marginal "repair failures" but more of general wear or maybe even a little abuse will slip by and my employer takes care of it with a smile. We just had yesterday a Seinna we replaced the life gate and handle (along with some other things) about 8 years ago and the handle broke. Nothing what so ever we did was wrong, it's Toyota's crappy part. But we bought a new one, and installed it no questions asked what so ever. So it can be useful if the shop you are working with is a long standing member of the community and stands behind their work. We don't even need proof like their repair order or some crap like that. We remember people and if there is any doubt we will look up what we did but we do this all the time and like I said it's a good feeling knowing we will.

Brian
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Old 04-14-2013, 12:13 PM
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Repairs.....

I repaired FIBERGLASS boats for over 30 years,MY WARANTY was " for as long as you OWN this boat" I waranteed every repair EXCEPT COLOR,but my colors were VERY close.in all this time I NEVER had a boat come back for repair under this waranty.I used to argue with adjusters,probably at least once a month.MY WAY,OR THE HIGHWAY.One adjuster wanted the factory to make a new part,and for me to glass it on,the part cost $1000.00, the adjuster wanted me to pay for the part,on a $2700.00 repair,,i told him to go P%%% up a rope....
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:28 PM
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I had the chance to sit and talk with pete... Straight forward type of guy.. Will tell you like it is for sure...
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Old 04-17-2013, 06:44 PM
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Insurance company.

I just went through this with Liberty Mutual insurance. One of their insured clients backed into the front of my truck. He was backing up a slight incline and struck the front bumper on my 23 year old truck, which was stopped. I called police and took photos at the scene. I filed a claim with his insurance (Liberty Mutual) at their local office that same day. . four days later a company rep called me from their office in Los Angeles, about 800 miles away. This female rep stated that their client rolled back and bumped my Bumper. I explained unless the laws of physics changed in the last few days, cars don't "Roll" up hill. I explained that the subjects back up lights were on and he was backing up. I then find out they had not even talked to their client, she was just making things up! It took a month to get a $98.00 dollar bumper replaced, yea, $98.00 dollars! I didn't want anything extra, just fix my bumper. Although it is a 23 year old truck, I take car of my vehicles and it is a nice truck. After this interaction I would never ever trust or insure anything with this company.
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:21 AM
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Hmmm---Liberty Mutual has been my insurance co. for over 30 years.
Home and Auto

They have in past argued with State Farm over the cost and type of repairs made to my then 15 year old pick-up----I win

Paid on one theft

handled all of the crap when I bumped into someone with my BRAND NEW Ranger and then fought off the following lawsuit-- (not even a scratch on the other pickups bumper and the occupants were crying back and leg injuries)

Dealt with the hit & run totaling of one of my T-birds----pair of teens in a stolen car.

And have made adjustments to my premiums for all of the cars I currnetly have insured thru them.

Spending a lot of my spare time in a friends body shop----there are so many ins. co. that I would not even consider---Progressive is putting ALL aftermarket parts on a 2012 Fusion in the shop right now.

Little local underwriters don't even want to deal with supplements and will not show up to re-assess-----car hangs out in the shop over a week waiting for an adjuster to show up.

LM wanted me to use one of their shops for the Ranger---nope
Took it to Roger & Henry, and just left it while I went on my work travels.
Came home and it was all fixed.
Insurance check came in a full week before I dropped the truck off.

5 years later---had to have a fender repainted as the clear was bubbling in spots-----they fixed it right up. (Texas sun and heat--car is not garaged at all)

My take
A good insurance company will make their insured feel good----they frankly do not care about another company's client.

Point-----Liberty argued for me in the case of the 15 yo pickup, and they had no liabilty at all in this instance (neighbor backed out of his driveway, in a hurry, in a Buick Electra, and creamed the front the truck----he then proceeded to go about his merry little way----while I was watching from my front porch)
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