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Old 04-11-2013, 01:16 PM
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Pete's rant about insurance company/steering and DRP's

yes, he does complain and rant but Pete speaks the truth.

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Old 04-11-2013, 01:41 PM
put up or shut up
 

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here's part 2.

In California there's an anti steering law which states insurance companies can't dictate which shop the car has to go to but they all do it anyways...which makes it illegal/against the law/morally wrong. It also seems to be that insurance companies seek to hire people with no auto body experience and this is so they won't sympathize with any of the shops, or in other words, do what's right cause they know it's right. It gets tiring educating estimators as to why I ask for some more repair time. They chose to be estimators why can't they be expected know more? It's like they want to hire clueless people who just look at numbers as opposed to what needs to be done. Not by accident by any means.



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Old 04-11-2013, 02:14 PM
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most adjusters are lazy because the shop they WANT YOU to take it to. has their own approved adjusters on site to handle the sup's..
you taking it to YOUR shop, forces the job to take longer as the insurance adjuster will have to come out and aprove the work.. and that takes time.. they know this. it's part of the game..
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:39 PM
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yep, and it's a reason they give to customers so they go to their drp. They'll say the process is faster, and it is, but it's by design. But once you mention storage fees they'll show up quick-lol. They'll also lag when it comes time to look at the supplement, if pictures isn't suffice.

I've worked at shops where on site adjusters have their own office. I guess it's not so ridiculous considering the business they bring but their business model is shady to say the least.
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Old 04-12-2013, 09:36 AM
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Insurance adjusters

Hi,I was ran off the road in my Motor Coach,By a semi,in Rock Springs Wyoming,at 3 in the morning,the semi never stopped.after I got back to florida,i called Progressive ins co,told them the problem,they told me where to take the coach,met me there,and went over the coach,with a fine tooth comb,the estimate for repairs were almost $10,000,the adjuster went every week,to see the job was done correctly,BEAUTIFUL WORK,NO complaints. so,NOT ALL adjusters,and INSURANCE companies are crooks...
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:00 AM
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Hi,I was ran off the road in my Motor Coach,By a semi,in Rock Springs Wyoming,at 3 in the morning,the semi never stopped.after I got back to florida,i called Progressive ins co,told them the problem,they told me where to take the coach,met me there,and went over the coach,with a fine tooth comb,the estimate for repairs were almost $10,000,the adjuster went every week,to see the job was done correctly,BEAUTIFUL WORK,NO complaints. so,NOT ALL adjusters,and INSURANCE companies are crooks...
they where going over a 100k+ coach. different animal..
one that an onsite adjuster would not know where to begin..
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:00 AM
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that's cause you most likely made them profits by paying more each month.
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:26 AM
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Most states have anti-steering laws. California is also very high in insurance fraud and companies are required to review so many completed repairs. Some states require an appraiser to physically inspect the vehicle (reduction of fraud) and many states require the appraisers to be licensed and keep up with continued education to keep the license. I see shops complain about things all the time, but they also do not realize what all the laws are that the companies must follow. This is some brief information.

I have worked in shops and I have managed shops. I now work for an insurance company and started as an inside appraiser (desk review of estimates), settled total loss vehicles, and currently in a claims audit and compliance area.

Until you work both sides, you may not know all that goes on. Now, I also will agree that some 'workers', either being insurance employees or independent appraiser, are not always punctual.
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:40 AM
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I never take a car to a dealer. never. When I take a car in for an estimate (hit a deer, second was a fender bender) I ask how long will it take to get the car back. Our Camry, parts are readily available. More than 5 working days, I move on, I am not putting the car into a "rotation". I ask around a few of our car club members where they have gone, these are car guys, they know a good repair from a not-so-good repair. Past experience tells me that the larger the shop, the shoddier the work, paying some kid minimum wage to install the battery, headlights, chrome trim, etc, leads to headaches.

Love Pete's' videos.
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:29 PM
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dinger: if you base your shop decision on how long it will take to get your car back, that not really a good way to go about it. It will depend on how much work is involved. A simple bumper cover repair can take 1 day, but a large hit replacing internal structure and suspension could take way more than 5 days. Best to go by reputation. I am sure the shop is not sitting idle waiting for your accident, so they might be booked for that week (or more) and will get it in when a spot opens up - so then there would be "rotation". A 'general rule' is you can figure 6 hours of repair would be 1 day in the shop.
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:31 PM
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I don't know where to begin, it's so funny how different facts are when you aren't locked into one thought process.

First off, watching that dude is so difficult it isn't funny. His friggin heart is going to explode for goodness sakes! What a horrible way to live. It has got to be a joke, the way he talks to people, I have ZERO respect for him. To talk to another human being like that who just doing a job, it makes me sick to think about. And he wonders why they aren't responding? HUH? When you own the business you can act any way you wish, when you don't you have to be polite until you have the proper out to hang up the phone and not listen to some one screaming at you on the phone.

Second, it is common practice to "write what you can see", not things you THINK are wrong, but write what you can see. I understand you KNOW those brackets are bent, but you can't get a photo of it, you write what you can see until the car is disassembled for a proper estimate. This is the standard of the industry because it has been found to be the most efficient way to do it. You get the car opened up, you capture every thing needed, you make one parts order, you send one supplement and the car gets repaired faster. There are a LOT of surprises when taking a car apart. I have seen where you KNOW something is going to be damaged and it comes part to find that part is untouched, it happens all the time. So because of this you write what you see and only what you can see and document. This is a standard of the industry being you are writing for a "DRP" (Direct Repair Program associated with an insurance company) or an independent, to write a proper estimate you write what you can see and don't "make anything up". Yes on that truck if the estimator got on his back and laied on the ground he likely could have seen the damage, by maybe not, it isn't that easy, there are under body shields and what not. I have done this every single day I know. On opening the hood, if there is ANY indication that the hood latching components or mounts COULD be damaged you NEVER open the hood because of all the times you can't get it shut again! Ask me how I know this! Again, it is a standard of the industry. Heck, I personally had a customer years ago where the adjuster opened the hood and that hood flew up hitting the windshield on the way to my shop! It is the STANDARD OF THE INDUSTRY to leave it shut until it is in the shop.

Shops have been ripping off the insurance companies for years, they just can't take their word for it when a shops says it needs something, they have to inspect. There are work loads that prevent them from doing it in a timely manner, your shop isn't the only one they are seeing. I have adjusters who cover the entire bay area, in one day they will be at one shop then by lunch they have seen three ending up 40 miles away. I have a friend who is an adjuster out in Missouri who travels hundreds of miles each and every day. It isn't always that easy to get out quickly.

When you see what you want to see and ONLY what you want to see it's easy to go on a screaming rant.

With that being said you won't see that I have commented plenty about insurance companies and the aftermarket parts they are putting on cars that jeopardize your safety and the quality of your car. And you have seen where I have talked about the "steering" using statements such as "Our DRP shop will give you a life time warranty" Or even making such a statement as "The work won't have a guarantee on anything done to your car by that shop, if you come to ours it's fully backed by us for the lifetime of ownership on the repair". Notice the choice of words?

All I know is if I was an adjuster and I had to work with that guy, oh yeah he would get the worse service I could possibly provide and not get fired.

Do adjusters know what they are talking about? Just like everyone on any job, some do some don't. The majority do, they are "decent", some spectacular others know nothing depending on the insurance company. The insurance company he is dealing with from what I could gather is not bad. We just had them here yesterday, damn nice guy who is always fair and we don't have to work too hard to get what we need.

I have seen fraud in this business (both sides, customer and shop) that is crazy. I have seen shops who will buy a bunch of OEM parts just to get the invoice. They then repair instead of replace, or replace with a cheaper After market part and use the OEM invoice to "prove" to the insurance they bought something and get that money from them. Of course they have to be very careful or they would be loosing $millions. The guy/gal who comes out is just doing their job, MOST by a HUGE margin are damn nice to do business with and if you speak to them with respect, surprise, you get it back! What a concept!

Brian....just keeping it real.
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Old 04-12-2013, 02:49 PM
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I don't know where to begin, it's so funny how different facts are when you aren't locked into one thought process.

First off, watching that dude is so difficult it isn't funny. His friggin heart is going to explode for goodness sakes! What a horrible way to live. It has got to be a joke, the way he talks to people, I have ZERO respect for him. To talk to another human being like that who just doing a job, it makes me sick to think about. And he wonders why they aren't responding? HUH? When you own the business you can act any way you wish, when you don't you have to be polite until you have the proper out to hang up the phone and not listen to some one screaming at you on the phone.

Second, it is common practice to "write what you can see", not things you THINK are wrong, but write what you can see. I understand you KNOW those brackets are bent, but you can't get a photo of it, you write what you can see until the car is disassembled for a proper estimate. This is the standard of the industry because it has been found to be the most efficient way to do it. You get the car opened up, you capture every thing needed, you make one parts order, you send one supplement and the car gets repaired faster. There are a LOT of surprises when taking a car apart. I have seen where you KNOW something is going to be damaged and it comes part to find that part is untouched, it happens all the time. So because of this you write what you see and only what you can see and document. This is a standard of the industry being you are writing for a "DRP" (Direct Repair Program associated with an insurance company) or an independent, to write a proper estimate you write what you can see and don't "make anything up". Yes on that truck if the estimator got on his back and laied on the ground he likely could have seen the damage, by maybe not, it isn't that easy, there are under body shields and what not. I have done this every single day I know. On opening the hood, if there is ANY indication that the hood latching components or mounts COULD be damaged you NEVER open the hood because of all the times you can't get it shut again! Ask me how I know this! Again, it is a standard of the industry. Heck, I personally had a customer years ago where the adjuster opened the hood and that hood flew up hitting the windshield on the way to my shop! It is the STANDARD OF THE INDUSTRY to leave it shut until it is in the shop.

Shops have been ripping off the insurance companies for years, they just can't take their word for it when a shops says it needs something, they have to inspect. There are work loads that prevent them from doing it in a timely manner, your shop isn't the only one they are seeing. I have adjusters who cover the entire bay area, in one day they will be at one shop then by lunch they have seen three ending up 40 miles away. I have a friend who is an adjuster out in Missouri who travels hundreds of miles each and every day. It isn't always that easy to get out quickly.

When you see what you want to see and ONLY what you want to see it's easy to go on a screaming rant.

With that being said you won't see that I have commented plenty about insurance companies and the aftermarket parts they are putting on cars that jeopardize your safety and the quality of your car. And you have seen where I have talked about the "steering" using statements such as "Our DRP shop will give you a life time warranty" Or even making such a statement as "The work won't have a guarantee on anything done to your car by that shop, if you come to ours it's fully backed by us for the lifetime of ownership on the repair". Notice the choice of words?

All I know is if I was an adjuster and I had to work with that guy, oh yeah he would get the worse service I could possibly provide and not get fired.

Do adjusters know what they are talking about? Just like everyone on any job, some do some don't. The majority do, they are "decent", some spectacular others know nothing depending on the insurance company. The insurance company he is dealing with from what I could gather is not bad. We just had them here yesterday, damn nice guy who is always fair and we don't have to work too hard to get what we need.

I have seen fraud in this business (both sides, customer and shop) that is crazy. I have seen shops who will buy a bunch of OEM parts just to get the invoice. They then repair instead of replace, or replace with a cheaper After market part and use the OEM invoice to "prove" to the insurance they bought something and get that money from them. Of course they have to be very careful or they would be loosing $millions. The guy/gal who comes out is just doing their job, MOST by a HUGE margin are damn nice to do business with and if you speak to them with respect, surprise, you get it back! What a concept!

Brian....just keeping it real.
sorry big boy, but if your shop isn't on the "list" the adjusters drag their feet..
you know the list that is nothing more than a kickback list.. we'll send work to you. and we get the labor rate we want to pay.. any other field that be illegal..
JUST KEEP'N IT REAL
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:04 PM
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sorry big boy, but if your shop isn't on the "list" the adjusters drag their feet..
you know the list that is nothing more than a kickback list.. we'll send work to you. and we get the labor rate we want to pay.. any other field that be illegal..
JUST KEEP'N IT REAL
First off, it's not illegal, it's called doing business. We nogoiate with dealers and other vendors for a better deal. We get 30% off list with the Toyota dealer, and we buy about $15K in parts every month. I hope they aren't over there calling us bad names because we have the nerve to spend $15K a month with them.

We deal with about a dozen different insurance companies here, with four or five being DRP. We have different labor rates with every one of them, some we give a discount on parts, some we charge for tinting colors, others we don't, some we charge storage others we don't, we have made contracts with them, it's called doing business. American (or should I say Chinese) Widget company makes a million Widgets each month, they sell to 15 different distributors, and may have 15 prices. The vendor who buys a half a million Widgets each month should get a better deal than a little guy who buys 10K right? It's doing business.

Now, on the big picture, the insurance INDUSTRY has kept our labor rate down, $80 or so while a mechanical shop gets $150 an hour on average around here. Now that frosts my hide.

And again, the drag their feet because the can. Should the Widget manufacture deliver the 10K to the little guy before he sends it to his largest purchaser jeopardizing that account?

I see both sides, I hope I make that clear, there ARE two sides to the story, they aren't evil. More importantly, the human beings who are working for them don't deserve to be treated as in the video.

Brian
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Old 04-12-2013, 03:21 PM
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First off, it's not illegal, it's called doing business. We nogoiate with dealers and other vendors for a better deal. We get 30% off list with the Toyota dealer, and we buy about $15K in parts every month. I hope they aren't over there calling us bad names because we have the nerve to spend $15K a month with them.

We deal with about a dozen different insurance companies here, with four or five being DRP. We have different labor rates with every one of them, some we give a discount on parts, some we charge for tinting colors, others we don't, some we charge storage others we don't, we have made contracts with them, it's called doing business. American (or should I say Chinese) Widget company makes a million Widgets each month, they sell to 15 different distributors, and may have 15 prices. The vendor who buys a half a million Widgets each month should get a better deal than a little guy who buys 10K right? It's doing business.

Now, on the big picture, the insurance INDUSTRY has kept our labor rate down, $80 or so while a mechanical shop gets $150 an hour on average around here. Now that frosts my hide.

And again, the drag their feet because the can. Should the Widget manufacture deliver the 10K to the little guy before he sends it to his largest purchaser jeopardizing that account?

I see both sides, I hope I make that clear, there ARE two sides to the story, they aren't evil. More importantly, the human beings who are working for them don't deserve to be treated as in the video.

Brian
Again, when the insurance agent you call. you know 1 800 liberty mutual../etc
they tell you all types of lies to steer you toward that list of shops.. deny it all you want..
don't know what shops you go to that the labor rate is 150.oo but thats bmw/mb/etc DEALER rates.. oh, and the rate you allow the insurance co. to get isn't the rate you'll charge a cash paying customer..
that walks in wanting his car fixed.. but paying out of his pocket..
so.. COME ON MAN..

my comments have nothi ng todo with the guy in the vid's way of talking like a biker, it has to do with see'n this crap first hand..
I was told flat out that if I took it to ______ that they'd not pay to fix the truck.. has to be a shop on this list.. YES THEY PULL THIS CRAP.. AND MOST DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S A LIE..

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Old 04-12-2013, 03:44 PM
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Again, when the insurance agent you call. you know 1 800 liberty mutual../etc
they tell you all types of lies to steer you toward that list of shops.. deny it all you want..
..
Man it's funny how we see only what we want to see. And I am talking about me too gearhead, we both are human and we just do this stuff. This is what I said, is there anything about denying in this statement?

"With that being said you won't see that I have commented plenty about insurance companies and the aftermarket parts they are putting on cars that jeopardize your safety and the quality of your car. And you have seen where I have talked about the "steering" using statements such as "Our DRP shop will give you a life time warranty" Or even making such a statement as "The work won't have a guarantee on anything done to your car by that shop, if you come to ours it's fully backed by us for the lifetime of ownership on the repair". Notice the choice of words?"



Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
don't know what shops you go to that the labor rate is 150.oo but thats bmw/mb/etc DEALER rates.. oh, and the rate you allow the insurance co. to get isn't the rate you'll charge a cash paying customer..
that walks in wanting his car fixed.. but paying out of his pocket..
so.. COME ON MAN....
The MB and BMW are $180 an hour and a little independent here in town is$120-130 an hour. Now, on the cash customer, again, this is business. Let me ask you do you think you should get the same deal on a new Ford LTD at the Ford Dealership as the California Highway Patrol gets when they buy 700 cars? We give the DRP a break on labor because they are sending a LOT of business here, how about to the tune of 1.5 million dollars from one of them, of course they are going to get a break on the price. It's doing business, exactly the same as some guy in a hut in Zimbabwe selling fruit out of his hut or a large retailer buying basket balls. It's just doing business and there is nothing evil about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post

my comments have nothi ng todo with the guy in the vid's way of talking like a biker, it has to do with see'n this crap first hand..
I was told flat out that if I took it to ______ that they'd not pay to fix the truck.. has to be a shop on this list.. YES THEY PULL THIS CRAP.. AND MOST DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S A LIE..
You could have had some piece of crap actually say "we won't pay for the repairs" I don't know. But if it were a normal insurance situation they likely told you something that made you think that and that was my point in my comment, the way they say it and the choice of words cleverly chosin by a legal staff makes it sound like that is what they said but it isn't. I am going with here in California, but I believe that sort of thing is basically the same across America. But just to be clear that DOES NOT happen here in California. People THINK it does because of the choice of words used, they HEAR that but it isn't what is being said.

We are on the same page here, I see the bad stuff too from the insurance companies and the industry as a whole, I see and understand more than you can imagine, I deal with it every day. But it isn't as cut and dry as the dude in the video makes it out to be. And they aren't evil as the video implys.

Brian

Edit: I edited out where I said they did NOT say that, obviously that is a pretty arrogant statement of mine, it could have happened of course I am not calling you a liar.

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