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Old 07-04-2002, 04:37 PM
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Post phantom flames

going to repaint my el camino how long should i let the base coat dry before taping up the flames dont want to pull up the base coat when i pull the tape off also any tips or tricks never done flames before

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Old 07-04-2002, 08:29 PM
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Carguy, depends on the type of paint and conditions, let me know what kind of paint your using and I'll tell you.

Since its your first time flaming practice taping and painting on something else first. Flames are a bit tricky for a novice, getting them to flow smoothly isn't easy at first. Use 1/16 or 1/8 tape to do the flames, I use 1/16", depends on how intricate you get. If you plan on doing a few over and unders, plan it out before you paint or it could get ugly. A pencil sketch helps. Remember the finished flame with be the inside of the tape so don't make the mistake of including the tape in the finished look, you could make the flames to thin that way. To make a great flame shading is the key. After you get the basic flames on you going to want to outline it, either use a sword brush and a steady hand, or you could get some tape in the right color and go to your local meat cutter and get it shaved down to 1/16 or 1/24 and retape it before clearing it.

The key to a smooth flame is the taping, to make everything smooth and not flatsided or squigly DO NOT press down the tape with your finger. Just hold the roll about 4-6" away with your index finger as a guide on top of the roll and let your wrist and arm do the rest, if it needs to be snugged down after you get the shape smooth it lightly with your hand but don't press to hard there could be an air bubble caught under the tape and if you press to haard you could fold the tape over on itself and ruin your flame and have to do it over.

If you need anymore help or guidance let me know through e-mail or PM through here, I'll help you as much as I can over the internet.

Faust
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Old 07-05-2002, 03:40 PM
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im going to use ppg base clear in millenium yellow with white pearl in the flames .
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Old 07-05-2002, 05:27 PM
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nice name
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Old 07-06-2002, 09:13 PM
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Let me know if I get what your saying correct...your shooting a yellow base coat, then taping off the flames and shooting it with your clear with mixed in pearl so after you clear the whole car you end up with a yellow car, but at certain angles you have the pearl flames?

If this is correct the only two things you need to worry about, taping off the flames to get them smooth and flowing and putting the same amount of pearl in your clear.

Pearl is tricky stuff, if you don't add the simular amout to each cup load of clear it could look two or three different colors. Since your only shooting the flames (small area) thats not much of a problem for you because you can probably get it all coverd in one cup load. The tricky part of it is spraying the pearl/clear because you can't see it very well. Could turn out tiger striped if your not good with your gun. Don't stop or slow down while spraying because you will build up the pearl and you will have a big spot of it. Give your gun a wide verticle spray pattern and slightly overlap each shot.

You could also just do a outline with a detail gun or a airbrush, it will take longer, but will illiminate the possibility of tiger striping and it looks much cooler. If you do this, mix your clear and pearl in one big cup and pour it into the detail/airbrush, this will help with the matching.

Another tip, buy the bottle of pearl not by the ounce, its cheeper by the bottle. Here you can get an ounce for 14-$20, or the whole bottle for $34-$40. Keep it for touchups or sell it off to your buddies or future prodjects.

Faust
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Old 07-06-2002, 09:52 PM
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yes i am going for the ghost flames i know i can spray the clear 30 or 45 min after the base coat but how long should i let it dry before i tape up the flames and is any sanding done before i clear the whole car [so i get smooth finish on the flame edge ]or do i sand it smooth when i wetsand and buff the whole car.
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Old 07-06-2002, 10:15 PM
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Depends on what the temp is and where its drying. If your using a heated paint booth you can tape it off in 30 minutes, I've done it in 15 before. If your using a home built non heated garage wait about 45-60 minutes, put a peice of tape in an easy touch up spot let it sit for about 10 minutes and if it comes off without any paint, tape the flames and paint.

If you peel off the tape before the flames are totally dry the edge with feather out a bit, but you don't need to do it. Wait untill is tacky spray the whole car with clear, let it dry. Wet sand it with 4-600 then clear it again for a glass smooth finish, then buff.

Wasn't sure what you were going for, here and where i learned to paint ghost flames are flames under a candy finish, not a pearl top flame like your doing.

Let me know if you need anything else.

Faust
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Old 07-07-2002, 12:15 PM
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Carguy , I see you are using ppg base, DBU ro DBC?
Either way is a good good choice, but both products have a clear base called DBU-500 or DBC-500- I would mix my pearl in it and spray,as it wont give you a hard tape edge as the high solids clear will.And DBC has a hardner for the base to speed up dry times.
What PPG clear are you using?
SprayTech
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Old 07-07-2002, 05:38 PM
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i have not bought it yet i was going to pick it up this week an do it while im on vacation so any advice will help
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Old 07-07-2002, 06:38 PM
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Car guy, DBC will probably be a tad cheaper over all, as the DBC uses the same reducer as the clear they should recommend.(2042 or 2021)
DBC can also be stored even mixed and wont go bad.
Is the car ready to spray?
SprayTech
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Old 07-07-2002, 06:51 PM
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i have a few odds and ends to finish up but yes
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Old 07-08-2002, 08:03 PM
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You might want to practice those flames on something elso before you work on the car. I have some fantatic flames on my hot rod and I had never done them before. I started out flaming our two trash cans, then the mail box, then the riding mower, then the fenders on my utility trailer. By the time I got to the car I had enough experience to do it right. I drew out the flames on a piece of paper until I got what I wanted, cut it out, then taped it to the car for a pattern to go by. I did some fabulous blending of colors by mixing 5 parts of thinner to one part of paint for the flames. You need to experiment with that also before going on to the car. I looked at hundreds of magazines, cars, flame painting books, and model cars in the toy department before I found what I wanted. The more planning and practice you do the better the flames will be. You can do it!!!
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Old 07-09-2002, 07:18 AM
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thanx my wife throws a fit because i flame everthing [i been practicing] my pop always told me a good paint job is 99% preparation
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