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Old 02-21-2012, 12:43 AM
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PICS of 1949 Ford F1 with 1991 Jaguar IFS under it -- how would you make this work?

Hello,

I had a '49 F1 pickup project. I got a 1991 Jaguar IFS with steering rack for dirt cheap.

I have it positioned within about an inch of where it would go on the X and Y axes, but as you can see, right now it is sitting on my garage floor under my F1's frame rails.

I am hesitant to substantially modify the frame as it would have to move inward and that would soak up precious 460 engine real estate. However, if I simply raise the IFS two inches and bolt/weld it to the frame rail, I would have to make a brace for the front swinging dampener mount that extended downward from the frame rail about six inches. This would be ugly and likely produce a very undesirable center of gravity.

If anyone could take a look at my pictures and toss me your opinion I would be very appreciative. I am going to try to make this work, as I do like the deeper K-member, bilstein shocks, sway bar, etc. However, I am not ruling out just going out and getting the Jag IFS circa 1980 which is a much more direct fit.

Thanks!
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Old 02-21-2012, 02:42 AM
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Ford F-1

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamieson
Hello,

I had a '49 F1 pickup project. I got a 1991 Jaguar IFS with steering rack for dirt cheap.

I have it positioned within about an inch of where it would go on the X and Y axes, but as you can see, right now it is sitting on my garage floor under my F1's frame rails.

I am hesitant to substantially modify the frame as it would have to move inward and that would soak up precious 460 engine real estate. However, if I simply raise the IFS two inches and bolt/weld it to the frame rail, I would have to make a brace for the front swinging dampener mount that extended downward from the frame rail about six inches. This would be ugly and likely produce a very undesirable center of gravity.

If anyone could take a look at my pictures and toss me your opinion I would be very appreciative. I am going to try to make this work, as I do like the deeper K-member, bilstein shocks, sway bar, etc. However, I am not ruling out just going out and getting the Jag IFS circa 1980 which is a much more direct fit.

Thanks!
How wide is the Jag compared to the ford axle are they close? is the Ford wider or the Jag. You might be able to widen the Jag. But if the are close, you will have to pinch the frame or look for the older one. JMO

Bob
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:17 PM
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They are indeed nearly identical in overall width. I keep trying to tell myself that the extra 6" of distance between the K and the frame isn't a big deal because I am not making a low rider... but I think changing the center of gravity that much, especially with a big block above it is something I would ultimately regret... right?

I could get it to work by pinching the frame, but as you can see in the pictures, the IFS is sloped so much that I would have to lose something like 6" of engine bay width to get it close to where it should be. I'd lose more like 10" to get it where it would be if I just started with the 1980 Jag IFS.

I feel determined to make this work, but maybe this is a good place to not be stubborn and just get a better fitting unit.

Thanks for your input!
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:22 PM
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Most rodders use the 1987 and back XJ6 front ends ... not the 1988 and up. The newer ones are wider. Go here for a photo pictorial on the installation of a 1987 type XJ6 front end under a F-1 like yours.

http://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gall...&albumid=30130

I have investigated doing the XJ6 IFS swap into my 1949 Mercury pickup.

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Old 02-21-2012, 12:27 PM
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F-1

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamieson
They are indeed nearly identical in overall width. I keep trying to tell myself that the extra 6" of distance between the K and the frame isn't a big deal because I am not making a low rider... but I think changing the center of gravity that much, especially with a big block above it is something I would ultimately regret... right?

I could get it to work by pinching the frame, but as you can see in the pictures, the IFS is sloped so much that I would have to lose something like 6" of engine bay width to get it close to where it should be. I'd lose more like 10" to get it where it would be if I just started with the 1980 Jag IFS.

I feel determined to make this work, but maybe this is a good place to not be stubborn and just get a better fitting unit.

Thanks for your input!
I have never worked with a jag front,, So I really don't know how they look or are built. I did have a 51 F-1 but it had a straight axle in it. Is it too narrow on the oil pan or is it higher than that? If you pinch the frame.

Bob

There you go, Deuce will get it done.

Last edited by 35terraplane; 02-21-2012 at 12:31 PM. Reason: Add
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:38 PM
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Just from eyeballing it and taking rough measurements, I think the oil pan will be fine, but I think I would run into pretty serious header fitment issues if the frame were pushed in.

It seems like folks with these trucks with a big block and rack and pinion already have a very difficult time fitting headers.

I suppose if I moved the frame in just right, I could fit the IFS in and have the exhaust travel outside the frame, underneath the running board, and dump in front of the rear tires... but that has never been my favorite look.

That walkthrough that Deuce just linked to is what made me start looking for Jag IFS to begin with. I just couldn't see how different mine was until I got it out of the Jag.
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Old 02-21-2012, 12:44 PM
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How important do you think it is to move the IFS up the extra 6 inches? Would the ride quality make me regret it as much as I think it would?

Looking at the first picture in Deuce's link again, the original front suspension placed the wheel center almost exactly where mine would end up without frame modifications (slightly below the frame) rather than where the earlier style Jag IFS places the wheel center (roughly level with the frame).



Can you see the lazy part of my brain trying to control me again?
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Old 02-21-2012, 07:00 PM
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Looks like that '91 subframe isn't going to work as easily as the older ones.

Wy not try to score an '88 or older one and make your life easier?
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Old 02-22-2012, 10:55 AM
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Couldn't a guy use a piece of heavy duty square tube and bolt it to the cross member and then weld or bolt to the outside of the frame as a mounting bracket for the Cross member? Just a thought from looking at it.Could always add gussets if worried about it not being strong enough.
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:50 AM
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If I am understanding you correctly, I think this would only get the crossmember 2 inches higher than it is in the pictures (because the edge of the upper mount would contact the frame). I need to raise it about 8 inches to get it where it "should" be.

I am planning to spend some serious time today making a plan to cut away the bottom part of the frame rail and reinforce the frame on top of that area. That should allow me to raise the crossmember somewhere in the neighborhood of 6", which would make it work. I will then do as you are saying and weld a mounting bracket just outside of the rail so that I can use the original Jaguar upper mounts.

I will post pictures of what I end up with ... if it isn't totally embarassing.

Thanks!
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:23 PM
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Jag IFS

Why not go with an older jag ifs they are made for the 48-52
bonus built trucks,they are a perfect fit.Why do you want to go with a 460,
why not go with a 5.0 or a 351 ? just curios,any way i wish you luck
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Old 02-22-2012, 05:42 PM
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The only real reason that I am going with the 460 instead of a small block is that I have already done a few 5.0 and 351 projects. The small blocks are great engines, but variety is the spice of life. I was originally going to do an 8BA flathead, but that is some very expensive spice.

To me, the '91 IFS looks like a slightly higher quality unit (very slightly), so if I can make it work with a simple vertical frame notch, I may do that. Especially because even the older "perfect fit" jag IFS requires some modification to the frame in that same area (a cut, bend down 1.5", and a re-weld). That being said, if I didn't already have the '91 on hand, I would absolutely be in the market for the older style IFS.

Most of all, anything that involves an angle grinder and a MIG welder cannot be all bad!
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Old 02-29-2012, 06:45 AM
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Having done the earlier Jag IFS in an F-1, i can attest to the fit-in short, it was made to fit. Your pictures are the first that I have seen using the later Jag in a mocked up location. It looks like the later Jag will be more like clipping the front end given the amount of cutting required to the original frame. Having done it for the earlier Jag, I do see a significant difference in the mods required to use the later Jag. I am not aware of anyone putting a 460 in an F-1 with an earlier (or later) Jag. Even with either the 351 or sbc conflicts exist with the steering coming off the R&P and exhaust. Many ease this restriction by offsetting the engine to the passenger side. I only raise the issue to bring out a potential additional problem with the exhaust. A comparison of the steering shaft to R&P location of older to newer Jag IFS would be a good idea before you get out the torch. Nothing is impossible but this looks like an order of magnitude more difficult than installing the earlier Jag in an F-1. My installation did not require cutting the frame at all (I used a wedge at the rear soft mount).
If you decide to proceed please keep us in the loop on your efforts. I would suggest going to the FTE (Ford Truck Enthusiest) site and posting there. You will find a number of guys on the 48-60 forum that have done or are doing the earlier Jag IFS in an F-1
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:00 AM
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Thanks for the advice Willard -- very much appreciated. For some reason I hadn't considered a nice-looking wedge for the older style IFS soft mount; I kept picturing an ugly stack of washers.

I ended up getting the flu on the day that I was going to start chopping up my frame for the IFS. I am only getting back around to it today, but I think I will drive down to Pick-a-Part today to see if they have any older style Jag's that are accessible.

Just to help anyone who is considering this later style IFS in the future and finds this thread, I am attaching a picture of the car that the IFS was pulled from (so you know what to avoid like the plague -- note the square headlights) and a picture of the steering rack sitting on TOP of my truck's frame (NOT where it goes, but it gives you an idea how it might ultimately line up) which is above the Jag IFS.


Thanks!
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:31 PM
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...please tell me this isn't backwards and Jag's just used 15 U-joints for steering..

So I was looking at the IFS setup today and realized something a bit important... IT IS BACKWARDS... probably... maybe... someone back me up here...

I always felt very strange about the sway bar being in the rear of the front wheels... I have only ever seen front sway bars in the front...

I also always felt strange about the steering mounting in from of the crossmember where road debris could hit it...

I finally use the combined power of all three of my IQ points and realized that the whole darn thing is backwards. I then flipped the steering rack around to a "backward" position and removed the engine mounts and noticed that this is actually the position it is meant to bolt up in (see attached picture).

No, this car was not a UK driver-on-the-right car.

The IFS was already out of the Jag when I bought it, so I used the "Jag IFS into a '48 F1" walkthrough above to pick the orientation with the dampener arms pointing forward (which is correct for the older Jag IFS). Apparently Jaguar switched from leading to trailing dampener arms with this new style.


The picture shows where the rack correctly mounts to the IFS, but the entire IFS and rack are backward under the truck.... RIGHT?


Talk about feeling like a dope... I will post a picture when I get it turned around... but it really is a minor issue, since it doesn't change any of the clearance problems and it is symmetrical left to right.
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