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Old 09-15-2006, 10:37 PM
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Pics...Is frame worth saving

This is the 30 sedan and rolling frame with IFS ...frame is ugly ....first project need advice.


Here is body .... note fenders and lights on shelf in rear



this is the big question



and the other half ...the six banger resting on the frame is just along for the ride.... the brake on the pinion is a new idea...




Apreciate any thoughts...

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Old 09-15-2006, 11:16 PM
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Before I would even consider using it, I would have it blasted and repair the chicken sh t welds on it. After that I would box it in for strength.
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Old 09-15-2006, 11:35 PM
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is that a driveline disc brake I see... when did that appear? I only thought they were on military trucks, monster trucks, and crazy 4x4s.

edit: off topic, but if possible, build the six... it'll get a lot more attention than another sbc will.
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Old 09-16-2006, 12:32 PM
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I remember reading your original post about buying this car..
All it said was it had a 1930 ford frame. I took that to mean it was somewhat unmolested. My bad.



It looks like the frame has already been boxed. ...But not all the way.
Some pics without a bunch of non related parts (air cleaners, IL6's) would be helpful.

The rear end looks scary. I don't know what those trailing arms are off of, they look homemade to me, as do the mounts. I see nothing that would control lateral motion, and unless there is some kind of rubber mount from the trailing arm to the axle, that setup makes it a really big swaybar...

The single pinion mounted disc , unless that is ONLY for parking, is extremely dangerous, and illegal. You did say in your original thread that it has drums so I'll just say use them.

The original rear crossmember is still in place. That might be a good thing depending on what you want to do with the car.

The front end looks even more scary than the rear. I don't know what the axle came from, but it needs to go back. It looks way too wide and from the picture, it looks like it will make your car sit way too high.

Those spring mounts are too far out and unless the undersides are braced up and tied together all the way across the frame they will twist those "A" frame rails like they were made of aluminum foil. Those model a frames are thin and not very strong to begin with, so anything welded to it is only as strong as the base metal. The original front crossmember has been replaced with a piece of box tubing?, channel?

I don't think you will ever get the car to sit low with that setup. It looks like you won't find rims for it either that will look right.

I'm not even going to ask about the steering.

Based on what I see in the pics, I'll say this: The choice of parts, poor fit and inferior weld quality would indicate to me that the installer was not familiar with many of the fabrication or engineering skills necessary to safely construct or modify a car frame.

With the right tools, some finesse and a bunch of patience you could strip all of that crap off the frame rails. Buy a repro front crossmember , and start back up.

BUT!!

Then the question would be whether the previous people who worked on it welded that stuff on that frame so hard that they put stresses and cracks in it. It is really easy to get a Model A frame rail way out of shape if you don't know what you are doing when you box it. I don't know how the boxing plates were done, so it is hard to say if those need to be redone.

That steel was not that good when it was new. Now it is 76 years old and abused.

That 6 won't fit in that frame unless you want to move the firewall back about 12" or so.

I would say you might have a good 8" ford rear end, if it isn't already too wide.

The body looks good

All in all, I don't know how you want your car to look or drive when it is done. If it were me , I would consider starting fresh. In one of your previous posts you asked whether you should run a windsor or a flathead in this car.

If you plan on running a windsor, that frame needs to go away.
You could probably make it work with a BUNCH of rehabilitation, but it will not be satisfactory.

Just my opinion.

Mikey
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Last edited by powerrodsmike; 09-16-2006 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 09-16-2006, 01:00 PM
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Some clearer pics,







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Old 09-16-2006, 02:28 PM
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I'm with Mike on this ... scrap that scary, scary frame and build or adapt something new.

All of those "add-ons" and "bird-poop" welds just don't instill any confidence at all. I've seen better planned mods on 50-year-old farm equipment than that!

Gotta love those front shock mount "extensions", too.

The original "A" frame might be OK for a restoration or a stock 4-cylinder powered driveline "parade car" conversion, but if you're going to hot-rod this thing ... you're going to need something that is engineered to take it.

Last edited by 66GMC; 09-16-2006 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 09-16-2006, 03:15 PM
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Is frame worth saving

I dont see a problem with using that frame. Looks to me like you have a good base to start with, and your going to be making changes anyway.Are you building a show car or a good streetrod driver. I would use what you have and work with any other problems,sure i can see some areas that need work but thats just my thought. I would be happy to find a frame like that. It will look better if you cleaned it up, then go from there.
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Old 09-16-2006, 08:18 PM
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I recommend either building a new frame or buying a new frame. The frame you have has had way too much amateur welding done on it and I am afraid you are going to have stress cracks and crystalized metal , especially if you tried to cut all that crap off to clean it up. The suspension system front and rear is all wrong...the car would never ride or drive right.
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Old 09-16-2006, 08:27 PM
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Appreciate the Feedback.

OK ...I/m going to take the frame down to bare metal and repost the pic's ...
I'll be taking off all the suspension components...and cleaning them up with more pics....


At that point I would ask for your opinions.,..

Thx again all

Robert Bullard Toronto
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Old 09-16-2006, 09:15 PM
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Looking at the clearest picture that you have.... the frame is badly rusted and there has been way to much dauber welding don on it.....I seriously think that you will be wasteing your time. Model A frames are easy to make...I would go with a new one. If you cannot make one yourself ...hire a welder to make you one. Go to www.speedwaymotors.com and you can buy a book called how to build a hotrod and it will show you how to set up your suspension and steering etc. as well as how to build the whole car. You can also buy the parts and components that you need from speedway.
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Old 09-16-2006, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry Highrise
Looking at the clearest picture that you have.... the frame is badly rusted and there has been way to much dauber welding don on it.....I seriously think that you will be wasteing your time. Model A frames are easy to make...I would go with a new one. If you cannot make one yourself ...hire a welder to make you one. Go to www.speedwaymotors.com and you can buy a book called how to build a hotrod and it will show you how to set up your suspension and steering etc. as well as how to build the whole car. You can also buy the parts and components that you need from speedway.
Great I'll order the book on Monday... Welded 35 years ago... best friend made over the road trailers, taught me to weld ...so mig shouldnt be to difficult...Thinking I should just start off with 2x4x3/16ths.

thx again..
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Old 09-16-2006, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66GMC
I'm with Mike on this ... scrap that scary, scary frame and build or adapt something new.

All of those "add-ons" and "bird-poop" welds just don't instill any confidence at all. I've seen better planned mods on 50-year-old farm equipment than that!

Gotta love those front shock mount "extensions", too.

The original "A" frame might be OK for a restoration or a stock 4-cylinder powered driveline "parade car" conversion, but if you're going to hot-rod this thing ... you're going to need something that is engineered to take it.
Thx ....your right ...a 25hp four cylinder is not a 600/lb. eight..I was looking at the welds again up close a few minutes ago...and have to tell you those are just monsterous welds...was trying to imagination the dwell time and the heat he generated to produce them..

Going to follow HH and Mikes advise...I'm a 9-5 chemist and not a car builder, but I can sure follow directions and take my time.....should start a Newbie journal...You guys will get a kick out of all my fowl-ups///which I can guarantee...

Robert Bullard Toronto
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Old 09-16-2006, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerrodsmike
I remember reading your original post about buying this car..
All it said was it had a 1930 ford frame. I took that to mean it was somewhat unmolested. My bad.



It looks like the frame has already been boxed. ...But not all the way.
Some pics without a bunch of non related parts (air cleaners, IL6's) would be helpful.

The rear end looks scary. I don't know what those trailing arms are off of, they look homemade to me, as do the mounts. I see nothing that would control lateral motion, and unless there is some kind of rubber mount from the trailing arm to the axle, that setup makes it a really big swaybar...

The single pinion mounted disc , unless that is ONLY for parking, is extremely dangerous, and illegal. You did say in your original thread that it has drums so I'll just say use them.

The original rear crossmember is still in place. That might be a good thing depending on what you want to do with the car.

The front end looks even more scary than the rear. I don't know what the axle came from, but it needs to go back. It looks way too wide and from the picture, it looks like it will make your car sit way too high.

Those spring mounts are too far out and unless the undersides are braced up and tied together all the way across the frame they will twist those "A" frame rails like they were made of aluminum foil. Those model a frames are thin and not very strong to begin with, so anything welded to it is only as strong as the base metal. The original front crossmember has been replaced with a piece of box tubing?, channel?

I don't think you will ever get the car to sit low with that setup. It looks like you won't find rims for it either that will look right.

I'm not even going to ask about the steering.

Based on what I see in the pics, I'll say this: The choice of parts, poor fit and inferior weld quality would indicate to me that the installer was not familiar with many of the fabrication or engineering skills necessary to safely construct or modify a car frame.

With the right tools, some finesse and a bunch of patience you could strip all of that crap off the frame rails. Buy a repro front crossmember , and start back up.

BUT!!

Then the question would be whether the previous people who worked on it welded that stuff on that frame so hard that they put stresses and cracks in it. It is really easy to get a Model A frame rail way out of shape if you don't know what you are doing when you box it. I don't know how the boxing plates were done, so it is hard to say if those need to be redone.

That steel was not that good when it was new. Now it is 76 years old and abused.

That 6 won't fit in that frame unless you want to move the firewall back about 12" or so.

I would say you might have a good 8" ford rear end, if it isn't already too wide.

The body looks good

All in all, I don't know how you want your car to look or drive when it is done. If it were me , I would consider starting fresh. In one of your previous posts you asked whether you should run a windsor or a flathead in this car.

If you plan on running a windsor, that frame needs to go away.
You could probably make it work with a BUNCH of rehabilitation, but it will not be satisfactory.

Just my opinion.

Mikey
Thanks Mike ...a super analysis ...starting fresh ...scares the be=jebers out of me but I'm looking forward to it.
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Old 09-16-2006, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrwood
I dont see a problem with using that frame. Looks to me like you have a good base to start with, and your going to be making changes anyway.Are you building a show car or a good streetrod driver. I would use what you have and work with any other problems,sure i can see some areas that need work but thats just my thought. I would be happy to find a frame like that. It will look better if you cleaned it up, then go from there.

Will still clean it up ...and have a buddy who knows steel have a look at it ..but Mike and HH make a good point ...so I'll start from scratch..

Thx for the Feedback..

RObert Bullard Toronto
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Old 09-16-2006, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66GMC
I'm with Mike on this ... scrap that scary, scary frame and build or adapt something new.

All of those "add-ons" and "bird-poop" welds just don't instill any confidence at all. I've seen better planned mods on 50-year-old farm equipment than that!

Gotta love those front shock mount "extensions", too.

The original "A" frame might be OK for a restoration or a stock 4-cylinder powered driveline "parade car" conversion, but if you're going to hot-rod this thing ... you're going to need something that is engineered to take it.
Have decided to start with fresh frame will buy the channel and have a go at it...

thx
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