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Old 09-30-2005, 03:34 PM
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Picture update on my blowby episode.

Here's what I found. I had the crank and rods balanced and I'm thinking some of the welding slag broke loose from the counterweight and chewed up my bearings and crank also.




Here's tha cause of my blowby!!


What in the hell would cause a bearing to fit like this? It wasn't like that when I put it in. It's not the rod either.

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Old 09-30-2005, 04:30 PM
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I told ya those scratches looked awfully familiar to me.

Does the bearing seat properly with the cap and other half of it in place? It may have gotten hot and deformed but it doesn't look like it got hot, just scraped up with pieces of the crank.

It also looks like the bearing may have had a little too much taper and couldn't maintain a consistent film of oil.

Jeez man, I feel bad just lookin' at it all.

On a lighter note, I see Scat has a 5140 forged crank for 396/427s. $300 at most joints. I know it doesn't make you feel any better but you should ask the dude that welded your crank to cough up a little help.

Larry
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Old 09-30-2005, 05:04 PM
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rodbrg failure

what you have is tipical when the leadtin overlay is tore off the bearing in your case due to the debree in the oil. as the filter becames cloged the oil bypasses the filter and the result is what you have. nothing wrong with the bearing or assem. have failure analisis manuals and the pictures are same as your case. cliff
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Old 09-30-2005, 05:31 PM
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guess this pretty much covers all the problems you've had huh? , from overheating, to blowby, to bad rings, to low compression, to...........

Crappy welding, standard rings in a .060 over 402 (or .090 over 396) with a humongous gap.....

Looks like you need another short block... You don't have much left except rods and heads. That crappy machine shop should have to eat it, figuratively and literally.

(and what's with those rod bolts?)

x
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Old 09-30-2005, 07:13 PM
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The rod bolts are backed out because I put the nut on and hit it with a brass rod to seperate the cap. I wish the machine shop would eat it but it's been a year since they did the work. I took my time building and tearing it down. I never thought I'd find this!!
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Old 10-01-2005, 12:01 AM
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I've seen damage like that also when the crank grinder didn't clean out all the oil passages in the crank after turning it. I check everything now after my buddies small block ate it's self up that way. Even when he showed them grinding goo in the crank they claimed it was his fault for not checking for that himself.
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Old 10-01-2005, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pony
I've seen damage like that also when the crank grinder didn't clean out all the oil passages in the crank after turning it. I check everything now after my buddies small block ate it's self up that way. Even when he showed them grinding goo in the crank they claimed it was his fault for not checking for that himself.

yes it is the assembler's responsibility to clean all the parts. period.
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Old 10-01-2005, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Rat 414
The rod bolts are backed out because I put the nut on and hit it with a brass rod to seperate the cap. I wish the machine shop would eat it but it's been a year since they did the work. I took my time building and tearing it down. I never thought I'd find this!!

I meant..... those are not ARP rod bolts. Used or stock type bolts scare me.
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Old 10-01-2005, 12:36 AM
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Looks like you came real close to spinning that bearing. I would check the big end for concentricity before I reassembled it. It's possible there just wasn't enough bearing crush too.
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Old 10-01-2005, 12:49 AM
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Thinking a little more about the welding slag thing...... and looking at the pictures..... There is just too much trash floating around inside that engine to be just that welding slag..

Pony might have the answer there,,,, crap in the oil passages of the crankshaft would explain the bearings, but the deep grooves in the cylinder walls...... How would that get through those bearings and onto the walls.... mmmmmmm??? Maybe it is both?

Anybody else thinking heavily about this? Cliff? Cold?
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Old 10-01-2005, 06:11 AM
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I was thinking the same thing. A big tub of parts cleaner and a some cleaning brushes might have saved that engine. Did you find the missing piece of crankshaft? My guess is that it came off in one big chunk. If that's the case then it's unlikely that it it's the cause for the scratches on the cylinders or the bearing failure. The oil pump would've went kaboom before any welding chunks made it too the filter and bypass. That damage came from poor/no cleaning of the block's oil passages and/or crankshaft oil passages.


If the machine shop did the assembly then they dang well owe you a shortblock, a year..two years after the fact doesn't matter. Any goon can look at the piston skirts/cylinder walls and see that the engine didn't even run long enough to seat the rings or suffer damage like that from abuse.


Larry

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Old 10-01-2005, 08:36 AM
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The was no "chunk" of crankshaft broken off. That picture is the way it looked after they added weld to balence it. I'm saying small pieces of weldingslag or grit came loose and got in the bearings and chewed then up. I cleaned the block oil passeges with a long round wire brush and then blew them out with air. I also blew out the oil passages of the crank shaft with air before assembly.
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Old 10-01-2005, 09:12 AM
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Sorry dude, I thought you meant that the weld wasn't done properly and the material they added came off.

Larry
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Old 10-01-2005, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Rat 414
The was no "chunk" of crankshaft broken off. That picture is the way it looked after they added weld to balence it. I'm saying small pieces of weldingslag or grit came loose and got in the bearings and chewed then up. I cleaned the block oil passeges with a long round wire brush and then blew them out with air. I also blew out the oil passages of the crank shaft with air before assembly.
*******************
I also thought that a lot of weld came off. It certainly is not a pretty welding job, huh?

That gooey sludge inside the crank passages probably will not blow out with air very well. They needed scrubbing also.

Judging by the amount and type of damage, I would think that the goo slowly disolved and circulated thus causing the damage. I am still wondering about the oil filter. Have you cut it open to examine the contents??? And what does the inside of the oil pump look like?

As to how the major scratches got in the cylinder walls, it doesn't seem to me that that size material could get through the bearings to get thrown onto the cylinder walls. That could be some of the slag.

Let's not forget that the material in the scratches, also gets thrown around inside and then circulated, but the filter should have caught it before it got to the bearings.

I bet we all can learn something from this hotrodder's misfortune.
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Old 10-01-2005, 01:00 PM
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failed engine

in my opinion the scratches on cylinders are mainly from the bearings failing as the lead tin overlay was peeling off the oil fromaround the rod bearings is th rowen onto the cylinders along with the metal particles. the filter would not catch that oiluntil it circulated back threw.with out a failur this oil lubes the writ pin and cylinders. some of the scrathes could also be from the incorrect rings(to much gap) also there is tremendous stress on the rod bolts with the bearingsfailing. i still think the weld fieces from the ballance job is the most likely culprit also the heavy metal that was most lkely held in place with the weld must have been floating around. also consider on every startup oil goes around the filter as the Resistance of cold oil pushes the element compressing the spring in the filter,plus the debree would make that senario More likly, that is the debree in the filter. just my guess. and i agree the machine shop should be helping
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