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Old 02-02-2006, 02:57 AM
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Pin Heads at Sams Club tires

I went to get tires today for my 2002 Grand Prix GTP and they would not sell me the tires I picked out because "they are not the correct speed rating for my car".

I drive a crappy two lane road for over 100 mile round trip every day to work and home in Minnesota. I wanted a set of B.F. Goodrich touring Pro series for the car because I have had great luck with B.F.Gs. The tires have a good tread design and deep sipping for Snow and Ice, and has a slightly softer sidewall than the Goodyears the car presently has (I would like to keep my teeth in my head, did I mention the crappy road) as well as a 70K mile warranty. The guy said because my car has H 112mph rated tires from the factory that is the only rating he could sell me. The tires I wanted are a T 97mph rated, same size, just a lower speed rating. I explained that I realized that and told him I'm not auto-crossing, just going back and forth to work and want a smoother ride and want to stay on the road if it snows or as it has been lately, freezing rain.

He showed me the H rated tires and they were all more for the summer dry and rain, virtually no sipping and long tread blocks that would send me ice skating with any below freezing precip. Sure they had some that may be OK at $140+ per tire (can you say upsell). Then I said the speed limit is 55mph and reminded him I am not driving at 112 mph for extended periods, I'm not sure if the computers gov. would even allow the car to reach that speed. I can understand if it was someone who has no idea what tires do other than the fact they are round and keep the rim off the ground, and wanted to the $20 Geo metro tires on their Trans Am or Mustang GT. He said I can get them cash and carry, but the warranty is no longer on them as soon as I leave. I've had good luck with the tires in the past but about the time a guy does this the tires will be just shy of square.

Needless to say I have been steaming about this all day and need do some venting. I've tried to find something on the internet about this particular policy and have not been able to. I guess the pin heads in the upper levels of WAL-FART have to go overboard on policies to protect the majority of their shopper who are borderline retarded and are not able to think for themselves. Also protect themselves from the sue-happy people who are just looking for a reason to blame someone else for their own stupidity.

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Old 02-02-2006, 03:13 AM
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there is no law that says that if your car came with tires rated for one speed, that you cant buy a set of tires with a different speed rating, its customer choice, thats it

considering that theres no road wheer you can LEGALY go 112, theres technicly no reason to require tires like this on a daily driver

i dont mind it when places try to upsell, but telling a blatant lie to do so should be punishable by a kick in the nuts
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Old 02-02-2006, 04:12 AM
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Pin Heads at Sams Club tires

It's all about their lawyers and potential liability. I think you can thank our Japanese buddies on this one (remember the Explorer vs Bridgestone controversy a while back?).

Costco & Sam's have the same policy here. They look at their referance books and that's the tire size/spec you get if they do the mounting. They will sell you any of the tires they sell outright (less the $10 mounting fee). Around here they are still the best deal on quality brand tires even if you have to get them mounted at another place.

Imho it should be illegal for a lawyer to run for any public office. We don't need lawyers legislating our laws (especially trial lawyers) while they make a fortune suing or defending people. It's a @#$%# conflict of interest and drives the cost of everything up to support those %$#$@RD's.

Whew, I feel better now........ ;-)
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Old 02-02-2006, 05:16 AM
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Go by the tires over the counter and tkae them some place else them have them put on. Another option is find a Discount Tire or NTB and get the tires there.

Vince
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Old 02-02-2006, 06:49 AM
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Or order some through the mail and have them put on somewhere. I've done business with Tire Rack several times over the years and have been very satisfied, except when they delivered through UPS, who lost all 4 tires. They FedEx'd another set and they were here in 2 days.
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Old 02-02-2006, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimfulco
except when they delivered through UPS, who lost all 4 tires.
small items liek that are easy to loose
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Old 02-03-2006, 01:35 PM
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Generally speaking, higher speed rated tires have construction and compounding differences that improves steering and braking. Downgrading to a lower speed rating could theoretically reduce the maneuverability and braking capacity of your vehicle, even from normal highway speeds, not just 100 mph.

I am guessing Samís/Wal-Mart does not want to step into this tenuous legal position (hell, people are suing Apple because of ear damage & iPod use Ė even though Apple did not invent the headphone). I used to be in the tire business, and made people sign waivers when downgrading tire construction.

I might ask why you donít run four snow tires in the winter. I would guess winters in Minnesota are worse than here in NJ and would warrant such an investment. I used to run them all the time. I had them mounted on extra rims. The wet road and snow traction over even the best all season hoop is night & day. Tire rack runs good deals on mounted snows in the fall every year.

On a side note, up until recently, very few snow tires have a speed rating higher than Q (less than H), but this reduction in speed rating does not appear to bother anyone.
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Old 02-03-2006, 05:34 PM
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i've run into this dilemma numerous times before... they'll let you get a higher speed rating (of course, more money for them), but not lower. the only loophole around it, the legalities, is to take the wheels off the car and bring it to the store to mount whatever tire you want. in that instance, they can never "sell" you a lower speed rating for the car... because there is no car! works well... been doing it that way now for YEARS!
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Old 02-03-2006, 05:44 PM
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Pep boys does the same thing, any big franchise company will. my dad told them what tire size he wanted for his '97 F150 about 4 years ago, shure it was 3 sizes bigger ( taller tire ) but he was/ is entitled to what he wants, they hassled him and then he threatened to write a complaint about them and return it to there boss, then a few minutes later, they had his truck on the lift getting the tires he requested.
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Old 02-03-2006, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonzoHansen
Generally speaking, higher speed rated tires have construction and compounding differences that improves steering and braking. Downgrading to a lower speed rating could theoretically reduce the maneuverability and braking capacity of your vehicle, even from normal highway speeds, not just 100 mph.

I am guessing Samís/Wal-Mart does not want to step into this tenuous legal position (hell, people are suing Apple because of ear damage & iPod use Ė even though Apple did not invent the headphone). I used to be in the tire business, and made people sign waivers when downgrading tire construction.

I might ask why you donít run four snow tires in the winter. I would guess winters in Minnesota are worse than here in NJ and would warrant such an investment. I used to run them all the time. I had them mounted on extra rims. The wet road and snow traction over even the best all season hoop is night & day. Tire rack runs good deals on mounted snows in the fall every year.

On a side note, up until recently, very few snow tires have a speed rating higher than Q (less than H), but this reduction in speed rating does not appear to bother anyone.
the speed rating actully has nothing to do with traction ratings, as long as your tire has a matched traction rating of the old, than that is all that matters. going by speed ratings, and snow tires, ( having both lower traction ratings ( traction measured on wet road conditions in hard braking ) and lower speed ratings ) nobody could buy snow tires if it was illegal to downgrade because they do have lower ratings. and most cheaper brand tires do not have the speed rating listed.
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Old 02-03-2006, 06:50 PM
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I went through the same sort of crap with Sears. Wife needed new tires on her Mustang and I took it down to get some BFG's that were on sale. Sales guy gave me the same BS about speed rating after he saw and heard me pull into the parking lot (Flowmasters). I asked him if those tires weren't just fine for a 4 cylinder Mustang. He allowed that they were. I told him to slap a set on, the VIN on this car says it's a 4 cylinder Mustang LX. I looked him dead in the eye for a about a minute and he gave in. (Nevermind those "5.0" badges on the fenders buddy, I stuck 'em on just for show. ) One of the shop guys witnessed all this and I had to wonder if he was able to resist popping the hood to have a peek and see what was actually in there. I would have found it tough not to.

Last edited by GypsyR; 02-03-2006 at 07:00 PM.
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Old 02-15-2006, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt167
the speed rating actully has nothing to do with traction ratings, as long as your tire has a matched traction rating of the old, than that is all that matters. going by speed ratings, and snow tires, ( having both lower traction ratings ( traction measured on wet road conditions in hard braking ) and lower speed ratings ) nobody could buy snow tires if it was illegal to downgrade because they do have lower ratings. And most cheaper brand tires do not have the speed rating listed.
Iím not arguing or defending, I just tried to explain Ďwhyí. They are afraid of lawsuits.

For the record I didnít mention traction ratings. UTQG ratings are worthless and can barely be used to compare tires of the same brand.
*Forget treadwear, the companies set that with no true oversight. The tire mileage warranty is more important to consumers.
*Forget temperature, any tire H speed rated or higher is already an A. Temperature is basically redundant, and organizations like Consumers Union are looking to get the Temp rating removed and more organized speed rating testing. They want tires to qualify for at least the equivalent of todayís B to be sold in the states. (And speed rating is always listed.)
*Traction? The test is a simple straight-line dry test, as not real world as it can get, and it only tells you if it meets a specific condition. All good quality non-winter tires will be A/AA traction. As mentioned, snow tire traction grades may be less, but snow tires grab wet roads very well. Snows are exempt from UTQG, I believe, so they may not have ratings.

Here is a good read about UTQG system and why it isn't worth much.
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Old 02-15-2006, 10:32 AM
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Real Tire Rating Insanity

You guys will love this one.

Way back in '93, I ordered a new Chevy C-1500 PU. I special ordered it with the SS 454 Sport handeling package and a 350 small block. (Yup, the factory would do that back then when they wanted to please customers and sell stuff at a profit.)

Now this is a 2wd with a 3:73 Posi rear truck. It comes through with wide reverse chrome looking slotted rims and 275 X 65/15's on all four corners. Now these wide bug crushers look neat and ride well in the summer and on dry roads, but in a heavy rain they are water skis and in snow they might as well be slicks. No-go, no-way. And, I live on top of a mountain with a 600' driveway at about a 22 degree angle in Connecticut, so, come winter, I'm walking.

Being the resourceful guy I am, I go the local car parts shop and get myself four new rims that are made to take 235 X 75/15's, the same as every other '93 Chevy C-1500 PU made (except the SS 454's and hy-brids like mine).

I buy a set of rear snows and radial fronts at Costco. I have them studded and mounted somewhere else, put them on the truck and I'm slogging through the snow all winter.

Come spring, I go back to Costco for their free tire rotation and I tell them to rotate the tires from the truck into the bed and the tires from the bed, the OEM wide ones, back onto the truck; same amount of work for them, dismount four tires, mount four tires. No problem.

Come the following November I go back for another tire rotation, prodded by an early snow. Now the ride to Costco on the 275 X 65/15's is like Mr. Toad's Wild Ride at 5 MPH. I mean it was like driving with bald tires on slick ice. Creeping along with no traction, no braking, and no cornering friction. Really scary. I get to Costco and it's "Oh no, we can't put these 235 X 75/15 studded snows and matching front tires on your truck. You see, right here on the door, it says you need 275 X 65/15's. Putting 235 X 75/15 studed snows and matching front tires on your truck would be unsafe."

After ten minutes of explaining, arguing, and staring into his blank, glazed-over eyes and then doing the same with the manager, I slid my way home and rotated the tires myself.

Now I know they were just doing their jobs, but really. Can't they have some sort of waiver you could sign absolving them of liability so that those of us who actually know what we're doing could get on with our lives? And how about Chevrolet? They had to know, or should have known, that the wide sport tires were rolling tickets to the emergency room in the winter. How hard would it have been to put a range or tire selection on the door? And to the dim-bulbs wandering aimlessly through the NTSB in Washington, how about not helping us with reams of regulations that are largely useless?
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Old 02-15-2006, 11:40 AM
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Can you spell L A W Y E R S ?????

They are covering there azzes for any potential lawsuits..

Remember the little old lady that spilled hot coffee on herself and MCDonald's had to pay her 3 million dollars.????????

I will tell you one thing----- if you go down from an H/V/Z rated tire to an S rated tire, your car will feel like crap going through corners... the handling will deteriorate significantly. I promise.

7734, down here Wally's crew won't even inflate your tires more than the amount specified on the door post, regardless of what the tire sidewall says.... you have to go down the street and pay 50 cents to inflate your own tires.

Last edited by xntrik; 02-15-2006 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 02-15-2006, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xntrik
Can you spell L A W Y E R S ?????

They are covering there azzes for any potential lawsuits..

Remember the little old lady that spilled hot coffee on herself and MCDonald's had to pay her 3 million dollars.????????

I will tell you one thing----- if you go down from an H/V/Z rated tire to an S rated tire, your car will feel like crap going through corners... the handling will deteriorate significantly. I promise.

7734, down here Wally's crew won't even inflate your tires more than the amount specified on the door post, regardless of what the tire sidewall says.... you have to go down the street and pay 50 cents to inflate your own tires.
Yup. Except the McDs suit value. It got knocked down huge in appeals. I forget the figure, but it was markedly less. The media never follows up on things like that, not sexy I guess.
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