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Old 04-27-2005, 10:49 AM
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A pipe dream, yes but what a good one. This will make some folks very angry.

To whom it may concern,


Do the organizers of our dictatorship, I mean democratic nation, intend to suck the life out each and every American born person in the form of taxes?

Seriously, do you think that legal or illegal immigrants are paying anything more than sales tax? Granted that's a pretty big chunk o money but it ain't spit compared to the amount of income tax lost to immigrant workers earning money and not paying taxes on it. Not to mention the money that gets sent to foreign countries every payday. Just look at the line outside your local "Transferencia del dinero a México", or Western Union for the overseas folk, every friday evening. They're packed with people sending money, that hasn't been taxed, to other countries.

I say these places would be good starting points for tax collection on income and rounding up illegal immigrants for deportation. A 33% flat rate on money transfered out of the country by anyone without citizenship and $50 a head for the bus ride home would be a good start. Greyhound would thank you.

Think about the number of honest people, legal immigrants included, that do business legally and can't compete. Before you start screaming the "work harder" or "work smarter" hogwash ask yourself if you can survive a 35% cut in your income and still live a decent life. Maybe you earn enough money to take a cut like that and still live comfortably, I don't. The majority of Americans don't. Remember that come election time. We're the taxpayers and the voters, if you like that fat paycheck you'll be wise to listen to us.

How many people apply for government aid because they can't earn enough money to feed their families because of unfair, illegal immigrant competition? It's just another burden on taxpayers that had better be addressed quickly. So say the people that pay the taxes and your salary. Remember, we're the ones that decide of you're going to keep that salary come election time.

I was born here, I pay taxes and my concerns should be heard and addressed first. Not someone whos presence on American soil is a crime. Not someone that continously breaks federal law with impunity! Crossing an international border without permission is still a crime isn't it? Tax evasion is still a crime isn't it? Do something about it NOW.

We don't need more stinkin' immigration laws, we have enough already. They just aren't being enforced. The next time the INS asks for a larger budget, give it to them immediately.

Get it together fellas, you've already opened the door for greedy corporations to take a dump on the peoples backs that built this country with NAFTA.

Just so you don't think I'm just a steamed up racist crackpot, ask any average joe you see on the street what he thinks about takin a pay cut so a foreigner can have a job, tax exemption, legal exemption and the ability to take it all and leave whenever he chooses to do so. I'll bet you get an earful.

Ask any educated person that just got his citizenship what they think about people getting for free what they had to work and pay for.

I'm not done yet, not by a long shot. Here are a few more issues that we think need to be addressed.

You and your cronies don't get to vote on payraises for yourself because we think you and your predecessors stink and you don't deserve a raise until you do as your told. You're supposed to represent us.....remember. Do it anyway and we will raise hell. Revolution anyone? Re-election.....I don't think so.

Repeal the current divorce laws that pander to gold diggers. You know the ones I speak of. You've made slaves of fathers and offered incentive to "mothers" to become whores. Marriage has become a joke.

Give the paddle back to the school principle, sometimes kids need a whoopin'. I did, you did....we all did. Kids are still kids 1955 or 2005.

Adopt German driving and liscensing laws for christs sake and ENFORCE THEM TO THE LETTER. The youngsters and illegal immigrants won't like it but they don't vote do they?

You will no longer recieve money or "comps" from lobbyists or special interest groups for any reason. Do it and you will be fired on the spot.

Repeal affirmative action. You know dang well why, if you don't..... you're fired. If I ever have to have brain surgery I shouldn't have to wear a toe tag that reads "Open Other End" because you and your buddies decided that lowering standards of education so that idiots and slackers can feel better was a good idea. If you don't, I want an NBA contract for $3mil annually with 10yrs back pay, now. You're still fired.

Repeal NAFTA, once again you know very well why. It shouldn't have been done to start with. Don't do it and your'e fired. The people have spoken.

Stop taking my money and giving it to chronic welfare recipients that keep squirting out babies, if you can boink....you can work. We'll have plenty of jobs available after you fix the immigration/NAFTA problem.

Hang lawyers by the toes until they scream bloody murder, or regulate the industry and it is and industry. They're half the reason I can't ride a bicycle without a helmet, light off fireworks or do anything fun without fifty permits, a fire truck and a rescue squad. They're also the reason my insurance costs more than my motorcycle.

Regulate the insurance industry to a reasonable level and leave no loopholes to exploit. Bar lawyers from suing for $10mil on a $10k claim. See the previous decree for further explaination.

Do you get the idea yet? It's called FREEDOM and DEMOCRACY.

Sincerely,
The American Public.

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Last edited by coldknock; 04-27-2005 at 11:07 PM. Reason: Don't want to ruffle too many feathers.
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Old 04-27-2005, 11:09 AM
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This will anger the liberals severely
Why would you think liberals would be opposed to good immigration laws and protecting the rights of American workers. You don't simply make an issue good or bad by tacking a liberal or conservative label on it. Many liberals as well as conservatives are attempting to improve immigration laws and the enforcement of the existing statutes. I realize it is very easy to trash some-thing or some-one by hanging that tired old liberal label on it. Unfortunately, all that does is alienate and infuriate others who might share your view...but not your politics.

People are seeking answers to these issues, not name calling. Offer up well researched, well thought out alternatives and you'd be surprised how many more people you will get to listen.

Dewey (the liberal conservative red-neck pinko)
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Old 04-27-2005, 11:30 AM
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Sorry, Most folks that claim the label of Liberal don't like it when I speak of dealing with immigration issues with a firm hand. The reasearch is right outside of everyones front door, noone seems to be looking though. Too busy watching the idiot box I guess.

Larry
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Old 04-27-2005, 11:59 AM
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Get it together fellas, you've already opened the door for greedy corporations to take a dump on the peoples backs that built this country with NAFTA.
NAFTA wouldn't be so bad if all three countries involved (USA included!!) would abide by the terms of the agreement. Look at the softwood lumber dispute, duties and tarrifs aren't part of free trade, are they? Speaking as a Canadian, our country has, and continues to recieve the short end from Uncle Sam on various issues, and it irritates us.

This said, I do agree with you on the immigrant problem. I am not trying to come off as a racist, but the days of giving the immigrants more rights and more breaks than people actually born and raised inside the country have to end. It is very difficult, at least for me, to feel sorry for these people when they get off the boat, stroll into a good job, pay less tax, have more rights/freedoms than I do, and they can't even speak the official languages of my country. When federal offices, such as the RCMP here, have to cange their regulations to fit with some ethnic minorities "religious" doctrine, something is seriously wrong. Come on, you dongs, you moved here for a reason, and the most common one I hear is " persecution". I firmly believe that when you move to a new country, you need to live by their standards and customs in public, and you may continue your own( as long as it doesn't violate the law of the country) in the privacy of your own home.
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Old 04-27-2005, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coldknock
Sorry, Most folks that claim the label of Liberal don't like it when I speak of dealing with immigration issues with a firm hand.
Hey coldknock,

The entire history of the worker's rights movement, unionization, protection of American workers etc. is tied directly to the liberal movement in the United States. I don't know what liberal or liberals you talked to, but if they did not have the American worker as a number one priority...then they were far out of step with the origins of their political ideology.

By the same token, it is also historically true that liberals have stood strongly in favor of justice for all human beings. And that may possibly be where some have objected to your stance on immigration issues. For many liberals, justice does not stop at the boarders of a country. And as a result, they foster a policy for just and humane treatment of undocumented workers. But that does not mean there is necessarily a conflict. Many tried and true liberals have no problem supporting a tough and firm stance on immigration issues while advocating the just and humane treatment of illegals who might be caught in this county.

Mostly my original comment was simply meant to strengthen the persuasiveness of your position. Unless you just want to preach to the choir (which I don't think you do) there is really no advantage to the disparaging use of the term liberal (or conservative for that matter). It just turns off those who you might potentially want to reach with your message. If you provide good data and solid reasoning, your case will be seen in a much better and stronger light. You have some very legitimate concerns, don't let them get bulldozed under by unnecessary rhetoric (especially when that rhetoric might not be supported historically).

Dewey
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Old 04-27-2005, 02:37 PM
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we are burning the same fire!

i glad people still have the courage to say whats right!
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Old 04-27-2005, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cboy
Hey coldknock,

You have some very legitimate concerns, don't let them get bulldozed under by unnecessary rhetoric (especially when that rhetoric might not be supported historically).

Dewey
Yea, I agree. You should use calm reasoned, factual rhetoric like these esteemed statesmen;

"This administration is waging war on poor children," Hillary Clinton

"Regime change! George Bush has to go and we have the power to do it. The officials of the [Bush] government shall be removed from office for crimes and misdemeanor; their crime against peace, and for use of torture in Iraq." Ramsey Clark

"He's (Osama bin Laden) been out in these countries for decades, building schools, building roads, building infrastructure, building day-care facilities, building health-care facilities, and these people are extremely grateful. We haven't done that." Patty Murray (Sen, D, WA)

"I despise him [President George W. Bush]. I despise his administration and everything they stand for. It is an embarrassing time to be an American. It really is. It?s humiliating." Jessica Lange

"Republicans idea of equal rights is the American flag and Confederate swastika flying side by side." Julian Bond

"The difference between Martin Sheen and George W. Bush is Martin Sheen is actually convincing when he acts like he's president." Paul Begala

"the Bush administration is out to undo the accomplishments of seven Presidents - Clinton, Carter, Johnson, Kennedy, Truman and both Roosevelts". Hillary Clinton

Republicans are planning "the deliberate, intentional destruction of the United States of America." Bill Moyers

"He betrayed this country! He played on our fears! He took America on an ill-conceived foreign adventure dangerous to our troops, an adventure pre-ordained and planned before 9/11 ever took place!" Al Gore

"Just so you know, we're ashamed the president of the United States is from Texas," Natalie Maines- The Dixie Chicks

"I would like to apologize for referring to George W. Bush as a "deserter." What I meant to say is that George W. Bush is a deserter, an election thief, a drunk driver, a WMD liar and a functional illiterate." Michael Moore

"The American people may have been lured into accepting the unprovoked invasion of a sovereign nation, in violation of long-standing international law, under false premises," Robert Byrd

"Republicans are men of narrow vision, who are afraid of the future." Jimmy Carter

"The problem is we elected a manager, and we need a leader. Let's face it: Bush is just dim." George Clooney

"I mean, I think, Iraqis, I think, feel that if we drove smaller cars, maybe we wouldn?t have to kill them for their oil.? Bill Mahr

"There was no imminent threat. This was made up in Texas, announced in January to the Republican leadership that war was going to take place and was going to be good politically. This whole thing was a fraud," Edward Kennedy

"This is a racist and imperialist war. The warmongers who stole the White House have hijacked a nation's grief and turned it into a perpetual war on any non-white country they choose to describe as terrorist." Woody Harrelson
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Old 04-27-2005, 04:36 PM
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My point indeed. You weren't swayed in the least by a single one of those loaded up rhetorical statements were you? It's just not an effective method of debate in my estimation...it doesn't work when Democrats use it and it doesn't work when Republicans use it. All it does is back people into a corner and irritate the bejezzus out of everyone. Yes, it scores points with the home crowd, but then the home crowd is already in agreement isn't it. So its accomplished nothing and quite possibly even eliminated the chance of ever convincing the opposition of your point.
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Old 04-27-2005, 06:28 PM
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I re-read ColdKnock's post and I don't see any inflammatory claims there. Nothing like the quotes that I posted above which are down right nasty and generally lies. Cold's post is passionate which is a refreshing change from the typical 'conservative' rhetoric we are used to hearing. Trent Lott, Bill Frist, Denny Hastert, are nice people, bless their souls, but they will NEVER carry the day in this social war. I don't totally agree with Cold on every issue but give me well though out, fact based passion any day and twice on Sunday.
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Old 04-27-2005, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by willys36@aol.com
I re-read ColdKnock's post and I don't see any inflammatory claims there.
I don't either. And I never said there were any. If you read my post you will note I did not quarrel with a single word in coldknocks post. My concern was only with one little portion of the TITLE to the post that stated, "This will anger the liberals severely". I felt (and still feel) that statement is like poking the opposition in the eye with a stick. If you want to convince someone of your point, why alienate them before you even get started? I was talking about TACTICS not CONTENT.

So if you want to argue that alienating and infuriating those you want to convince is a good tactic I'd be interested in hearing your reasoning.
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Old 04-27-2005, 07:38 PM
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I think this is a subject that 90% of the public all feels the same way about.

Its the politicians that won't do anything about the problem.

Have you noticed, since the people in Arizona started petrolling the boarder
there have been some action brewing in Washington. Why, its just short of a rebellion and they're concerned!
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Old 04-27-2005, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by BarryK
I think this is a subject that 90% of the public all feels the same way about.

Its the politicians that won't do anything about the problem.
If it does'nt concern them,and they get that FAT paycheck,you think they care? Please.....look at Bush...... I agree with Jessica Lange. We have Hussain. Why keep fighting? What? For the Oil? If thats true,someone is sick in the head if they think thats a good reason for other people to die.
For those who aren't afraid of a little language,look at this.
Again,if you can't stand language,Don't click it. I warned you.
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Old 04-27-2005, 11:03 PM
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Sorry if I offended you Dewey. If the truth be known I suppose I'm a bit of what people call a liberal, based on what I see and hear from the politickers. I still don't fully understand the process of determining if someone a conservative, liberal, democrat or republican. I guess I'm a little of each one. That said, maybe I should change the second part of the title to this thread "This will make some folks very angry".

Thanks for the advice fellas.

Larry

Last edited by coldknock; 04-27-2005 at 11:10 PM.
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Old 04-28-2005, 07:44 AM
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I didn't read all the posts, but my thoughts kept gravitating to the farm help/immigration.

I finally figured WHY the government isn't interested (so to speak) in clamping down on them. Too easy really.

"Joe Farmer" hires 1,000 mexicans at $5./hour x 40 x10 weeks. He pays them cash, to the tune of $2,000,000.00 The government would see approx $500,000.00 in tax revenue based on minimum taxes for employees and employer contributions. Joe Farmer , being a business, is being hit at the highest tax level (55% corporate) , so the government makes 1.1 Million in tax revenue.

Joe Farmer, can not write off wages, when he pays under the table. No line item, no cost against income. It shows that he made 2 million more than what he actually did.

Therefore, the government picks up .6 Million off from illegals working in the states. Given the state of the budget deficit, why turn down the extra revenue?
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Old 04-28-2005, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by coldknock
Sorry if I offended you Dewey.
Not offended in the least, coldknock, since on most issues I don't count myself in either the liberal or conservative camp, so I didn't take your post personally. My original comments were more of an observation regarding tactics, not content. I think your proposed change in the title "This will make some folks very angry" - does the trick perfectly and from my perspective, at least, makes the post sound much more intriguing...as in, whoa, I've got to read this to find out who it is that is going to be angry.

But I think you get the point I was trying to make. If you want people to pay attention to your ideas and give those ideas a fair shake, there is no advantage to getting the reader's teeth grinding before they even start.
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