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Old 08-31-2006, 09:39 AM
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Piping questions

Has anyone had problems with either black pipe rusting or galvanized pipe flaking off & plugging something up? If so, how long did it take before you started having trouble? TP says galvanized will flake off while I have read other places not to use black pipe because it will rust. Given that copper is out of my price range & pvc is not an option, which will cause less problems? What I'm looking at doing for now is to run 4 pcs of 11/4" vertical in something like an 'M' connected by 90* fittings & short pieces at the top with T fittings & ball valve drains at the bottom. On the middle of the last leg put a T fitting, regulator, filter, & hose (someday a 1/2" hose reel) Will this take out enough water for blasting or painting or is a dryer still going to be needed when the time comes?

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Steve

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Old 08-31-2006, 10:00 AM
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I seriously doubt you will have any problems with galvinized in your lifetime....
I just plumbed my shop for air this spring, using galvinized, and I don't see a problem with "flaking" as you say. Even if it did the heavy stuff would fall out at the drops...
Here is a link to some good guidelines to follow when doing your plumbing.
http://www.oldsmobility.com/air-compressor-piping.htm
Notice the chart about sizing. I think you will find 1 1/4 to be overkill (and expensive) I followed the quidelines as listed and am happy with my system...
Mark
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Old 08-31-2006, 10:16 AM
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We have the same experience as Mark. No problems whatsoever.


Don
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Old 08-31-2006, 10:53 AM
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I plumbed air systems as part of my business for over thirty years and have used galvanized, black iron and copper extensively. I have never seen the flaking problems that one hears about except for some minor problems when the system is first put into use and even this is not real common. The black iron works just fine also with rust not being much of a problem on properly run systems and the filter will take care of any rust particles that do find their way into into the air stream. Rust may be a problem if you do not have a filter however in that case you will have other contaminates also with some being worse than the rust. Until recently I would recommend copper for air lines but with the staggering cost of it today I think galvanized would be a more sensible choice.
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Old 08-31-2006, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
I plumbed air systems as part of my business for over thirty years and have used galvanized, black iron and copper extensively. I have never seen the flaking problems that one hears about except for some minor problems when the system is first put into use and even this is not real common. The black iron works just fine also with rust not being much of a problem on properly run systems and the filter will take care of any rust particles that do find their way into into the air stream. Rust may be a problem if you do not have a filter however in that case you will have other contaminates also with some being worse than the rust. Until recently I would recommend copper for air lines but with the staggering cost of it today I think galvanized would be a more sensible choice.
I agree Guys, its the war stories that make you think twice but its only because the system was not install correctly, that when you run in to problems. depending on where you live. Would be a deciding factor for me which to use. Rust is from condensation so if you doing a big shop you could put in a dryer. But for most home shops and if you don't want to paint the black pipe then the Galvanized is the way to go.

Craig
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Old 09-01-2006, 10:52 AM
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Why wouldn't 3/4" sch 40 PVC work? It's rated at 480 psi.....
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Old 09-01-2006, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by crankshaftkid
Why wouldn't 3/4" sch 40 PVC work? It's rated at 480 psi.....
Rating has nothing to do with it. Part of the job of hard lines is cooling. Cooling the air supply before end usage creates much less condensation at the air tool or spray gun. Of course you should be running a filter/regulator right before the tool but less water is always better. Metal lines, whether steel or copper, will cool the air more efficiently then plastic will.
The other problem with the PVC is brittleness. PVC gets brittle over time and this is not a good thing with PSI's of 125 to 150. A brittle PVC pipe doesn't just burst, it sends little knifelike shards flying through the air...
Mark
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Old 09-01-2006, 11:13 AM
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Ah....good points. Thanks
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Old 09-01-2006, 12:19 PM
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PVC is not allowed, unless run inside steel conduit or buried underground, by OSHA or MSHA for any kind of compressed gas including air, this came about due to injuries resulting from ruptured air lines sending razor sharp shards flying like shrapnel. That high rating changes drastically with temperature plus impact damage that would cause only a minor leak or no leak at all to a metal line could cause a PVC line to rupture violently. This along with the fact that it contributes greatly to water in the lines due to it's poor cooling qualities makes PVC a looser just about any way you look at it.
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Old 09-01-2006, 05:14 PM
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Well guys, went ahead & got 40' of 1" black pipe along with a 8' long 1" hose to run from the compressor to the pipe. Now I have a project over the holiday weekend putting everything together. Will probably use pipe thread compound to seal the threads so it don't leak, have 2 24" pipe wrenches so getting it tight isn't a problem. Regulator-filter & tools from Eaton got here today so ready to get some use out of this thing

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Steve
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Old 09-01-2006, 07:13 PM
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Guess I'll re-do all of my pipe too and pull out all of that PVC that was installed 21 years ago.....
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Old 09-01-2006, 07:28 PM
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Crank, if it has worked so far that's fine and if you want to continue using it no one is telling you not to but the fact is if it is that old you have a REALLY dangerous set-up and it is nothing to joke about. Just because you have gotten away with it this long does not make it safe. Most systems using PVC will survive and the odds are yours will last also, for a while anyway, but don't kid yourself PVC is a VERY bad choice for air lines and if yours does let go you will see what we mean. You would be wise to scrap that stuff and redo it for real.
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Old 09-01-2006, 08:00 PM
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I totally agree with you and didn't intend for my post to be a joke but after re-reading it, it did kinda sound sarcastic. When I installed this stuff, I asked around a bit and got the "ya, it'll be ok" answer from a few people and it wasn't until years later that I started hearing that it wasn't that good of an idea. It wasn't until today that it was said exactly what it can do when it lets go and I don't like the sound of it. One thing I will do is turn down the psi it sees until I can get it out of my shop.
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Old 09-01-2006, 08:31 PM
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I replaced several PVC systems while I was still in business and I have seen some bulletins about line failures but actually the only major failure I saw first hand was caused by a guy shooting at a rat, but that is a whole 'nother story While one can not fault a line for failure due to gun shots the results are the same regardless. If this had been a metal line there would have been a leak or at worst the line would have been completely severed but this PVC line simply disintegrated along several feet and the flying shards damaged two vehicles in the shop at the time but fortunately no one was hurt.
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Old 09-01-2006, 08:52 PM
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My system is well thought out and is supported very well. The clamps are tight enough to keep it in place but has enough 'give' to let it move to allow it to expand with temp changes. At least I think it's well thought out. Each of the 3 drops has drains below the outlets and are placed in areas where they cannot be hit unless you go out of the way to get them. Rats are not a problem around here but I have 'other' ways to take care of them if they ever did show up but I have used my shop as a 'firing range' a few times lol. Sure would be nice to be able to find some stainless steel tubing and fittings! Anyways, I will be pulling out all the PVC very soon....about 200 feet of it. And btw, thanks for the heads up about the real dangers of what happens when it does let go.
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