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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2013, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
If you use a Holley double pumper? I would use the 750 or the 850,Ive never had as good performance from the 800,and I do not know why..
The 750 will easily support 500 plus HP.The 850 will easily support close to 600 HP,so it depends on final parts choices and finished combination.
The heads hold the key to this mystery

I wish I knew more about the heads or had them handy to see what they really are. 200cc with 64 chambers is all I know at the moment!

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2013, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
lets say your heads flow 280 ish?
110635-10 NA 290 290 237 237 .560 .560 110 106 Hyd. Hyd. 1,2
2400-6400 Rough idle, Street/Strip, strong mid range. 10.0:1 CR, 2500+ stall.
a cam like this would use most of the heads potential
The engine would make power to 6k plus
torque converter would work great as is. 3.73 gears ,,,? I dont know,that depends on what the car is used for? for the drags it would be fine,for x country travel with out over drive not great.
The 750 double pumper is a minimum.

Myself,I would use a bigger solid cam
vic junior intake and
850 CFM Holley double pumper,,,

this car needs a big exhaust system
Using your Howard's juice roller makes sense . I used AFR195 flow figures, capped at 279/181, bolted the cam in at 6.5, 50.5, 46.5, 10.5, 1 3/4" long-tube headers, X or H pipe before the mufflers, RPM intake, 750 carb.
RPM...HP...TQ
2000...147...385
2500...188...395
3000...240...421
3500...308...462
4000...376...493
4500...436...509
5000...487...512
5500...516...493
6000...530...464
6500...508...410

Peak volumetric efficiency 97.8% @5000
Peak BMEP 201.6 lbs @5000
This is real good cylinder pressure, so tighten up the squish (0.035" to 0.045") for pump gas.
Hydraulic roller lifters are quite heavy and will tend to loft off the cam lobe at crankshaft speeds over 6000 rpm's, so this particular grind works out really well, showing max hp right at 6000. On the DynoSim graph, it heads downhill at 6100 like someone clicked off a switch.

Last edited by techinspector1; 05-14-2013 at 09:00 PM.
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
Using your Howard's juice roller makes sense . I used AFR195 flow figures, capped at 279/181, bolted the cam in at 6.5, 50.5, 46.5, 10.5, 1 3/4" long-tube headers, X or H pipe before the mufflers, RPM intake, 750 carb.
RPM...TQ...HP
2000...147...385
2500...188...395
3000...240...421
3500...308...462
4000...376...493
4500...436...509
5000...487...512
5500...516...493
6000...530...464
6500...508...410

Peak volumetric efficiency 97.8% @5000
Peak BMEP 201.6 lbs @5000
This is real good cylinder pressure, so tighten up the squish (0.035" to 0.045") for pump gas.
Hydraulic roller lifters are quite heavy and will tend to loft off the cam lobe at crankshaft speeds over 6000 rpm's, so this particular grind works out really well, showing max hp right at 6000. On the DynoSim graph, it heads downhill at 6100 like someone clicked off a switch.



I like the look of that. And would the manifold you are speaking of be the RPM performer, or the RPM air gap?


Again, I really appreciate all y'all's advice. It helps more than you know.
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:53 PM
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WOW! look at that torque at 3k?slightly more HP than torque. If that doesn't melt tires and drive well?????
Thanks Richard,,,
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:56 PM
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I don't put much stock in air gap intake manifolds. Just seems like more snake oil to me, plus I want the motor to come up to operating temp as fast as it can.
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
WOW! look at that torque at 3k?slightly more HP than torque. If that doesn't melt tires and drive well?????
Thanks Richard,,,
OOps, sorry, got the hp and tq mislabeled. Should read RPM/HP/TQ left to right. I went back and fixed it.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:02 PM
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I don't put much stock in air gap intake manifolds. Just seems like more snake oil to me, plus I want the motor to come up to operating temp as fast as it can.
Just what I needed to know. So this cam, RPM performer, and a 750 double pumper sounds like a great street combo to me. And I can imagine it would be much more street friendly than the current cam setup by far.

I also noticed pretty much everyone recommending a Holley carb to me. Just curious the reasoning everyone recommends these over a Edelbrock?
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:12 PM
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If you buy a carb from the carb shop,Pat will have the carb almost perfect out of the box.Or other reputable carb shop. The double pumper is a great performance carb that is easy to work on.Terrible mileage though.The quadrajet is great too,but maybe a little small,and more difficult to tune
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:15 PM
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Can you simulate that with a cam with maybe about 6-8 degrees less duration on the intake? I think you'll find the power in your driving range goes up substantially, few people buzz a sbc above 5000 rpm under normal circumstances on the street. With 4.56 gears that power band looks more attractive but 3.73 gears are not that steep.

On a car that sees regular track duty that would be a great combo, but I don't see it being useful on the street. I've built a few high winding engines and they're more of a pain in the *** than anything after the first few months.
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Old 05-14-2013, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sixshooter45 View Post
Just what I needed to know. So this cam, RPM performer, and a 750 double pumper sounds like a great street combo to me. And I can imagine it would be much more street friendly than the current cam setup by far.

I also noticed pretty much everyone recommending a Holley carb to me. Just curious the reasoning everyone recommends these over a Edelbrock?
A Holley will make a little more horsepressure than an Edelbrock, so the racers will most always recommend a Holley. Personally, I would recommend a Rochester Quadrajet mounted on an RPM intake, Edelbrock stock number 7104. I would get the Q-Jet from Cliff Ruggles and have him set it up for me according to my recipe of parts and intended purpose of the motor. It is said that his setups are only a hair away from responding like EFI.
http://www.cliffshighperformance.com/

Q-Jets came in, I believe, 750 and 800 CFM. Either would work. Use caution when putting the rest of your fuel system together. Edelbrock, Carter and Rochester will tolerate only about 5 psi fuel pressure at the bowl before the pressure unloads the needle from the seat and allows the pump to blow raw fuel into the intake manifold and create a tuning nightmare for you. Holleys will tolerate slightly more, about 6 psi maximum. You'll want to use large diameter piping or tubing from the tank to the carb, building a HIGH VOLUME system, but not a high pressure system. Cam-driven mechanical fuel pumps do not take lightly to being collared with a fuel pressure regulator because of their inherent chug-chug design (pressure, no-pressure, pressure, no-pressure). If you plan to use a mechanical pump, then do some research and find one that will limit output to 6 psi for a Holley or 5 psi for any of the others. Fuel pressure regulators work great on electric fuel pumps because of the steady pressure produced by the pump. I like using a return line system instead of dead-heading the fuel into a regulator. You can tee off right at the rear-mounted pump and run a line back to the tank pretty easily.

Just rifling through my brain......

As far as ignition timing, the converter will have the motor revs past the point where you would normally have all the advance in the motor anyway (about 2800 r's), so I see no sense in trying to set up a curve when the motor is just gonna blow right by it. Might just as well lock out the timing at max, depending on the design of the combustion chambers. Tight little bathtub chambers might work really well with a total of 34 degrees, while less efficient chambers might make more power with a little more advance, like 36.

Whatever you do, nail down the exact point of piston top dead center with the mark on the inertia ring of your damper. Most guys miss this.....
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...op_dead_center
Most guys also miss the fuel pressure......and the squish.......

Last edited by techinspector1; 05-14-2013 at 09:44 PM.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:06 PM
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Great info, many thanks! I don't know a thing about q-jets but I will definitely take a look at them.
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Old 05-14-2013, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
Can you simulate that with a cam with maybe about 6-8 degrees less duration on the intake? I think you'll find the power in your driving range goes up substantially, few people buzz a sbc above 5000 rpm under normal circumstances on the street. With 4.56 gears that power band looks more attractive but 3.73 gears are not that steep.

On a car that sees regular track duty that would be a great combo, but I don't see it being useful on the street. I've built a few high winding engines and they're more of a pain in the *** than anything after the first few months.
I agree with you, it's just like everything else that gets done to the max. It gets old in just a little while and you wish you had built a more tractable motor.

What I consider a really good street motor is one that produces at least 400 ft/lbs of torque at 2000 rpm's. So let's leave everything else the same as above and just change out the cam to a more sedate grind that will achieve the torque figure that I like. We'll use another Howards juice roller, but with less duration, part number 111145-10......
http://www.howardscams.com/component...h/3/2?Itemid=0
We'll stab the cam in 4 degrees retarded on these numbers....IO (-0.5), IC (39.5), EO (42.5), EC (2.5)
The OP likes a little rump-rump and this cam should rumble a little.....

RPM...HP...TQ
2000...164...430
2500...208...438
3000...267...467
3500...330...496
4000...389...511
4500...435...508
5000...476...500
5500...490...467
6000...476...417

Max volumetric efficiency 95.0% @5000
Max BMEP 201.5 lbs @4000
This cam produces in excess of 450 ft/lbs of torque from 2700 rpm's to 5700 rpm's!!!!!!

Last edited by techinspector1; 05-14-2013 at 10:53 PM.
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Old 05-15-2013, 05:44 AM
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If after trying the cam you got, you find it a little too much and want to tame it down
a notch try Lunati Cam #401A6LUN 276/284 243/251 @.050" .518"/.530" 110LSA 104in C/L .026" (hot)

Will also work real well with the RPM Dual Quad air gap Dual Plane High rise induction system , 3000 stall and 3.73's.
A nice hi-perf street mechanical.
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by techinspector1 View Post
I agree with you, it's just like everything else that gets done to the max. It gets old in just a little while and you wish you had built a more tractable motor.

What I consider a really good street motor is one that produces at least 400 ft/lbs of torque at 2000 rpm's. So let's leave everything else the same as above and just change out the cam to a more sedate grind that will achieve the torque figure that I like. We'll use another Howards juice roller, but with less duration, part number 111145-10......
http://www.howardscams.com/component...h/3/2?Itemid=0
We'll stab the cam in 4 degrees retarded on these numbers....IO (-0.5), IC (39.5), EO (42.5), EC (2.5)
The OP likes a little rump-rump and this cam should rumble a little.....

RPM...HP...TQ
2000...164...430
2500...208...438
3000...267...467
3500...330...496
4000...389...511
4500...435...508
5000...476...500
5500...490...467
6000...476...417

Max volumetric efficiency 95.0% @5000
Max BMEP 201.5 lbs @4000
This cam produces in excess of 450 ft/lbs of torque from 2700 rpm's to 5700 rpm's!!!!!!
What rocker ratio did you use on that test? If that's 1.5 ratio then that's really good for a moderate amount of lift, I would have expected to need more lift on heads that big, a 1.6 ratio or better. Less lift means a cheaper valvetrain, more durable, and less problems. The torque peak dropped to right about where I would want it for that stall and gears and the HP peak is right where you need it for a 6,000 RPM redline.

That cam makes a VERY usable power band for stop light racing, should also be easier on parts and provide better economy.
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Old 05-15-2013, 10:05 AM
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Both of those cams look good. I'm considering going with the first one, incase I decide to upgrade to some steeper gears in the future. And it still looks like it would have plenty of torque for cruising around on the street with this 383 the way I am setup now, right? I have just about 100% ruled out running the big solid cam that is in it now, I think it would just be way too much for my use.
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