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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2013, 10:00 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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That cam is a little too big for your application, and the heads are okay provided they have been checked for machine work and have the bowls and guides cleaned up. You're not sitting as bad as you may think, still need a cam and you probably need some sort of head work.

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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 05-16-2013, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap72 View Post
That cam is a little too big for your application, and the heads are okay provided they have been checked for machine work and have the bowls and guides cleaned up. You're not sitting as bad as you may think, still need a cam and you probably need some sort of head work.


Well that's good to hear. I was worried I had some junk heads after seeing a few people talk about them on the web. Do you think I would still be able to utilize a cam such as the 111145-10 that you initially suggested even though the heads are not what we originally thought they were?
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:59 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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Well that's good to hear. I was worried I had some junk heads after seeing a few people talk about them on the web. Do you think I would still be able to utilize a cam such as the 111145-10 that you initially suggested even though the heads are not what we originally thought they were?
At this point I don't see a reason not to, BUT you should have your heads checked over and some bowl, guide, and maybe chamber work done. With that work done they can actually be pretty good heads.
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Old 05-17-2013, 09:16 AM
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At this point I don't see a reason not to, BUT you should have your heads checked over and some bowl, guide, and maybe chamber work done. With that work done they can actually be pretty good heads.
I'm debating on getting the heads worked on, or just biting the bullet and going with some AFR 195's. At least then I know what I have and they would be of better quality, and I wouldn't literally be "polishing a turd". But the AFRs are pretty spendy!
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Old 05-17-2013, 09:49 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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There are a lot of other heads out there too, some not as spendy.

If your heads check out fine though I don't see any reason to not use them. Its not that expensive to have them checked, and if they're good then I would just run em, preferably with port work but even if you don't get the work done. No sense in replacing good heads unless you're after every last pony.

Just changing that cam out to something more appropriate is going to make a huge difference in the power you'll feel on the street.
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Old 05-17-2013, 02:26 PM
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Well that's good to hear. I was worried I had some junk heads after seeing a few people talk about them on the web.
Those heads have been cussed and discussed by most everyone by now. I think I can bring the whole thing together for you in a few short sentences......
The heads are a Chinese casting, more than likely machined in this country. When they first showed up on the market, the castings were very poor. It was said that the workers in the foundry would sweep up the floor and dump all the sweepings into the caldron, creating a less than optimum mix to begin with. Then I think some of the castings were machined in the Orient and they were a disaster. From what I have been told, current castings are machined in this country, although I cannot verify that. The third thing that made them horrible was that hucksters in this country would fill the heads with parts that were sub-standard in order to add to their profit.

So, the best thing a guy can do is to look the casting over carefully, measure all holes for correct spacing and diameter, check all angles for being cut correctly, then fill the heads with some quality parts and hope for the best. Or, like you said, opt for the creme de la creme AFR195's and sleep well at night.

The 64cc chambers of the heads you have are going to need a fair-sized dish in the piston crown to make streetable static compression ratio. I don't think you gave us any details yet, so I will sit still and wait to see exactly what you have.
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Old 05-17-2013, 05:51 PM
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Thanks guys, I'm still debating on the heads. Those AFR's are a lot of money, but I'm sure down the road I would be glad I went with them. Next chance I get a few minutes to look at the engine I will get some more info. Obviously I cant see what the pistons look like at the moment with the heads on, and SRP 40 is all I could see from the bottom side. A google search showed no specifics with that number.

So I guess a decision is in order. On one hand, I want the AFR's, on the other hand these procomp's are paid for and installed! But I'm curious, how hard is a head swap? I can get my brother who is a good mechanic to help me, I'm just curious what kind of job I would be in for?
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Old 05-17-2013, 08:14 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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With the engine out of the car a head swap can be done in a few hours if you work at a leisurely pace. If it were me I'd take off what you have have it checked over and reassemble if its good. Get it all running good with a good cam and down the road if you need that extra hp (which you likely won't) then you can swap heads. Don't be in a rush to fix something that isn't broke. Fix your cam, get it running good, and then consider if an extra two grand is worth the 5% power difference. IMO you have better places to put money.

I'd rather put the money in a good trans or an Efi conversion or good suspension. You don't drive a set of heads, you drive a car and you have to consider the whole package.
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Old 05-17-2013, 11:01 PM
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Like Tech says,its all about the combination. Take your engine apart,see whats good and whats not,make a plan or set a goal,shop for good deals on parts.

Maybe the big cam tire ripper is not for you.
NOTE: almost every high performance factory car(example mustang/Camaro/Challenger) all have red lines of 6500 RPM or higher.A roller cam and good breathing heads and your gen 1 engine can do the same thing.
get techinspector the info he needs and lets make big power with a reasonable cost,,,
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Old 05-18-2013, 12:29 PM
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Great advice. I should have a chance early in the week to get into it more, so I should know more soon.
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Old 05-21-2013, 02:40 PM
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Ok, I'm heading over to my brothers shop in the morning to do some more digging on this engine. So I should know more soon. I think I have decided I am going to go ahead and upgrade heads and sell the current ones if I can. I plan on going with the AFR 195's. My question is, should I get the standard "street" heads or upgrade to the competition full cnc 195's? As y'all know, this is going to be a street car, but I'm curious if it would be worth it to get the comp heads while I'm at it? I don't mind stepping up to them if they are worth the investment.

Thanks,
Caleb

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Old 05-22-2013, 05:05 PM
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So we got the heads off the engine today. I finally got a few specifics.

-Pistons- SRP 40 Domed (no other numbers or markings). They measure 4.060 (0.060 overbore). As far as I can tell these are 7cc dome volume. Ring gap was .024.

-Stroke- 3.750, with a deck height of .008

-Gasket that was under the heads I just pulled- Fel Pro 7733PT2


I have decided I am not going to be running the Procomp heads for sure. I will be using the AFR 195's. I'm thinking with these pistons I will need the 75cc chambers. If that will even get my compression low enough to run on 91 octane on the street? I would like to use these pistons if at all possible, but if I won't be able to get the compression low enough to run on pump gas I can get something else. I don't know the correct way to calculate my compression, so any help on what to do here would be greatly appreciated. I am ready to order the heads, I'm just not sure if I can get away with these current pistons and 75cc chambers, or if I will need new pistons and could run the 65cc's.
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Old 05-22-2013, 06:56 PM
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can you readily buy race gas in your area? How many miles a year are you driving on the street?
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Old 05-22-2013, 07:02 PM
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can you readily buy race gas in your area? How many miles a year are you driving on the street?
I would think so, I know some of the powersports places carry it but I'm not sure where else it is available. And probably not a whole lot of miles, I have other vehicles for daily drivers, and I just plan to drive this for fun when the weather is nice.
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Old 05-22-2013, 07:04 PM
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OK, let's run through the static compression ratio / dynamic compression ratio routine......
We find the volume of one cylinder thusly:
Let's say we have a 4.060" bore, 3.750" stroke, piston deck height of 0.008", pop-up pistons with a 7cc dome and let's use a default Fel-Pro 1003 gasket that displaces 9cc's. This gasket has a pre-flattened fire ring that prevents brinelling of the aluminum heads.
Now, the math....
(.7854) x 4.06 x 4.06 x 3.75 x 16.387 = 795.5 cc's in the cylinder
(.7854) x 4.06 x 4.06 x .008 x 16.387 = 1.7 cc's in the piston deck height
Since this is a pop-up type piston, let's remove the dome from the piston crown and place it in the combustion chamber just for this exercise. We are going to remove 7cc's from the piston crown, making the piston crown a zero value and placing the 7cc piece in the chamber, reducing the chamber size from 75 to 68.
So, we will add all the values together......
795.5 + 1.7 + 68 + 0 + 9 = 874.2 cc's total.
Now, we will deduct the cylinder cc's from the total....
874.2 less 795.5 = 78.7cc's
Now, we will divide the total by 78.7 and find 11.1:1 static compression ratio. Too high.

I wonder if the pop-ups are hollow or solid. If they're solid, could the pop-ups be machined off the crown to end up with a -5 piston?
795.5 + 1.7 + 75 + 5 + 9 = 886.2 cc's total
Now we will deduct the cylinder cc's from the total
886.2 less 795.5 = 90.7
Now, we will divide the total by 90.7 and find 9.77:1 static compression ratio. Too low.

OK, let's try a 12cc D-Cup piston with a 65cc combustion chamber....
795.5 + 1.7 + 65 + 12 + 9 = 883.2 cc's total
Now, we will deduct the cylinder cc's from the total...
883.2 less 795.5 = 87.7
Now, we will divide the total by 87.7 and find 10.07:1 static compression ratio. Still low.

Let's try a 7cc piston with a 65cc combustion chamber
795.5 + 1.7 + 65 + 7 + 9 = 878.8 cc's total
Now, we will deduct the cylinder cc's from the total....
878.8 less 795.5 = 83.3
Now, we will divide the total by 83.3 and find 10.55:1 static compression ratio. And baby bear's bed was juuuuuuust right for pump gas and aluminum heads, using the 0.049" squish afforded by the head gasket (0.041) and the piston deck height (0.008").

To answer the question you posed earlier, I personally would not pay the difference between street heads and race heads. Hell, the street model flows 280, which should support ~560 hp.

Last edited by techinspector1; 05-22-2013 at 07:17 PM.
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