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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2004, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Old School Nut
87442lover,
tell ya what, I trust my arm and a rope (or crank) more than I trust a battery full of lead, acid, water, battery cables,wires, a solinoid, a starter motor and a bendix!!!! my arm has not failed me yet! obviously one way is easyer, but the other keeps ya in shape!
You go ahead and use that arm!
tell you what, I have a 67 Sunbeam Alpine, and it has the hand start crank setup. 4 cylinder, 8.5:1 compression, and I cannot start that damn engine to save my life with the hand crank. I just love my lead acid battery, cables, solenoid, and starter motor!
And mind you, I can easily lift 300 lbs. consistantly, so no, I am not a wimp, but brains over brawn..... I'll turn a key before turning the crank by hand!

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 08-16-2004, 03:04 PM
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Thought I'de throw my 2 cents worth in...

If I had AAA towing and was driving around town and there's a repair shop near by and I had a credit card in my pocket and a cell phone on my hip, I'de take a HEI system anytime.

On the other hand....

If I was in the woods and out of cell phone range and there was noone around to help, I'de take a points system.

Once you learn the basic (install, set, & troubleshoot) info about points, they are pretty much idiot proof. In a pinch, I can use the screwdriver and fingernail blades on a Leatherman knife to get them working again. You certainly can't say that about HEI.

Is one better than another? You bet!! It just depends on the perspective of your current situation.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 08-16-2004, 06:36 PM
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Points....

[color=yellow][size=2]Doc Here

In defense really of neither....

points does have one thing over HEI...

I've never heard of anybody filing and regapping their ECM after the Engine quit, to get it running again, 100 miles out in the sticks...In a Snow storm,....in the dead of night....with Bigfoot on the horizon....LOL

Actually Performance , reliability , and abuse wise HEI has it all over Points...And it's so easy to maintain and troubleshoot.

However, If you have a Show, non strip, Retro Rod and don't mind the extra "Adjustments" Involved points can be an adventure too....You get to learn new words ...Like Dwell Angle...

As to the "Why Don't They use Mags Anymore ?" Question...Top Fuelers Use 2 of them! along with Duel plugs.

Also, ALL Piston type Aircraft use Duel Mags, (with a very few exceptions of Experiential Aircraft with Automotive type Engines installed) and duel plug systems. Very Reliable system.

Doc
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Old 08-16-2004, 07:33 PM
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Old school and doc

Didn't points give way about the time compression dropped. It seem that the more pressure you put gas under, the less spark it took to exnite it. Hence, low compresson, hoter spark, lower octane fuel boom bat a bam. Hey nobody told how much cheaper it was to tune with the points system, the parts were about 1/4 as much. Hey run what you brung.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 08-16-2004, 09:02 PM
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Re: Old school and doc

Quote:
Originally posted by lanierledford
Didn't points give way about the time compression dropped. It seem that the more pressure you put gas under, the less spark it took to exnite it. Hence, low compresson, hoter spark, lower octane fuel boom bat a bam. Hey nobody told how much cheaper it was to tune with the points system, the parts were about 1/4 as much. Hey run what you brung.
[color=yellow][size=2]Doc Here

Thinking back, yeah you might be right I guess it was about or just before ,the same time as the Fuel crisis set in and Imports were the word of the day...so were long lines at the pump...

Gone are the days of the "GAS WARS"when you could buy gas for 19 cents a gallon, get your windows washed, battery checked fan belt adjusted, tires checked and a hand full of S&H GREEN STAMPS....

If you uttered $2.85 cents a gallon Someone would likely as not speak up and say "Ohhh , what color are you painting the house?"....

H*LL , Flying "A" was a place to buy fuel, not the name you called the guy that raised the price just before you filled up....

Also what went out with that was having to pull and clean the plugs because of lead fouling....Remember that stuff??

Yup, Points are much cheaper to tune, If you figure $3.50 for a set and 2 bucks for a capacitor, Vs 30 bucks for an ECM...Plugs and wires are about the same though considering although you never needed the bigger wires, didn't we all buy them?

I don't know , If I had a retro rod, with points in it, and I wasn't racing it, I'd probably leave that way just for grins....(Besides, what the H*LL would I do with all these tools?) However, If I had a highway car with points, HEI would be the first thing to go in..

...Doc
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-16-2004, 09:49 PM
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yeah it realy depends what ya want to do with your engine. its your preferance. i personaly want a magneto! like docvette says they use them on aircraft... infact they are the same mags that were used on farm equipment. i just wish i could find a magnteo with vacuum advance for a SB chevy.... becides mag's look cool, and you can get em with a mechanical tach drive.

and about crank starting a car, i never have, only stationary engines.... with one cylinder.. lol
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Old 08-16-2004, 10:04 PM
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I think Stacey David from Trucks built and engine with a distributor that looked like a magneto but was either HEI or Points (cant remember) inside. If I'm correct that was the engine that went on the "hairy hauler".

Mike
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Old 08-28-2004, 09:39 PM
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HEI vs Points

AS 1 of the dinosaurs who has been dragged kicking and screaming into the electronic age even i have to admit HEI is the only way to go, yup points will get you home but very rarely does the hei ever fail. As for performance anyone that knows has to admit spark timing and voltage, holding rpms etc hei has it all over. Even put it into my baby 67 p/u, hey one wire and you're done. If you are worried about failure just put together a cap and coil extra rotor and a spare module all are easy to change on the road and get ya going, and not very expensive for peace of mind.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2004, 09:32 PM
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true, HEI's are easy, you just pop em in and hook up your wire. they are also great for a stock to mild built engine in stock form and they do an awsome job as long as they work.... but they have the disadvantage of being HUGE, and ugly :-).. as for failure, i have had the HEI in my chevelle fail (stupid module), yet none of my tractors (which really take a beating (but they are low RPM)) have had their points fail, they have required maintenance but never just quit, was always a gradual thing. I guess if you want performance that you can set and forget its HEI, points are for the less modifyed engines with owners that love getting dirty, however in the hands of a good mechanic i think a duel points set up is respectable performance wise but it just dont have the potential that electronics have. then again it dont get any simpler than points.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2004, 01:10 AM
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points are out dated and hardly worth learning about. I cam directs the spark, gap directs the dwell, that's about it. If you're goign to buy a book on something, get something on efi or distributorless ignition. THese are the wave of the future-

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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 09-17-2004, 09:14 PM
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we could argue over this all year. but their is a fact. points are NOT dead. i deal with them on almost a daily basis... many motors use them as a primary ignition source or as a backup system. they have their place just like electronics have theirs... some aircraft have electronic ignition systems... but they always still have a magneto (points) for a backup... and as for hardly worth learning about, come on, what kinda statement is that. just because they have been around since their have been motors does not make them unimportant. becides, lots of them are still in use, i mean, puting high energy electronic ignitions is not a very popular bolt on for tractors or old mowers. points are fine. old may be just that, old, but they are simple, a good place to START learning and to learn principles and build up on.

by the way, by dealing with them i dont mean always fixing but using them.. ;-)
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 09-17-2004, 10:19 PM
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Points

[size=3]Doc here

IMO, Points are worth learning about , for a couple of reasons...

I think, for the Learning Tech, They provide a good basis for the theory of operation of a basic Ignition system.

You can SEE the result at each location, and it's easy to understand the principals of operation. What and what not will stop the spark.

The Same theory applies to the Electronic system, Except you have LESS places to sight the results.

IE power in to the "Box/Module" magic happens, and it goes somewhere...

Once you learn what each part does...It's easier to troubleshoot..

IE..for example: Points =Magnetic pick up, Except you can't see them open and close...etc..

But it all boils back down to "How does the Basic (points) System work?" How does it apply to the Electronic System?

And also, Somewhere , sometime, you will run across a Points system (even if it's on your Chainsaw) and it's nice to know how it works...Honestly, How many can answer the "Dreaded" Question (without thinking twice) which side of the coil, + or - should I put power on? Or what happens If the Capacitor is bad? You were raised on points!

Just My Opinion..

Doc
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