Hot Rod Forum banner

Pole Barn Question

7K views 28 replies 12 participants last post by  BBCMudbogger 
#1 ·
I live in a rual area in florida, it's zoned A1, and I am going to build me a pole barn soon(the ole shade tree has got to go :) )I was wondering if anyone can tell me how far from the property line and from my house it has to be to keep the county guys from comeing down on me? I have also been told that you don't have to have a building permit for a pole barn too as long as you don't put the poles over 3 feet in the ground? This don't make a bit of sense to me but that is what the guy across the street told me :( Maybe he was just messing with me, I don't know, any help on this will sure be appreciated, I have tried to find out the answers to this on line but had no luck Thanks , Bugs
 
#3 ·
Good point grouch

The "Guy across the street" has been known to make up his own rules,yes I will have to check with the code guys before I do any building to be sure, I just thought that maybe someone on here has "Done that,been there" before and save me a trip to town and I could figure out where to put it before Monday when they open, my property is so narrow I am limited to places to put a shop, especially if he is right in it having to be 25' from the property line or my house, he claims this is the reason he hasn't built one :confused:

I live on a small lake also so most of my back yard stays to wet to put it down there, guess I will find out soon, Thanks, Bugs :)
 
#4 ·
By all means you need to contact your county codes office,i'm involved in a dispute now that has held me up for two month's.

In our county there is no offset.

My problem is a property line issue that after nine years surfaced after i informed my neighbor of my intention's.

I had a survey done and actually gained some on him and he's really pissed off now.

However we are pouring the pad next week and the building is on site (steel) so it all worked out.

You do need to be sure because these type of conflicts have a nasty habit of escalaiting. :mad:
 
#6 ·
Just go to your local building permit counter and ask for a residential permit application package..

I worked for an oil comapny building gas stations in 5 different states so have been there done that..

Shott me a PM with any specific questions and I will see if we cannot walk thru to the end of the process and get your permit processed..

OMT
 
#7 ·
Thanks

Yea I think I had better go to the zoneing office in the morning,buy a permit and do it right, I sure don't want to pay fines or have to tear it down, it will be best in the long run to get it straight from the horses mouth so to speak , I have been needing this shop for to long and sure don't want any problems in the future,

My neighbor to the east of me had a metal building built after the hurricans last year damaged his old one so I measured how far he had put from my property line and it was exactly 25', he is on a two week vaction so I didn't get a chance to talk to him about it, I guess this is the reason he built it so narrow and tall, it has an upstairs in it, well thanks again to all of you, I will post what I find out and maybe it will help some other Floridian in the future :)
 
#8 ·
No Barn for me

Well I got ahold of the zoning office, not good, my land is zoned A1 which is prime agracultural(sp?) they said you have to be 50ft. from the property line on the sides, and 100ft. from the front which would be fine except my lot is only 108ft. wide and 695ft. deep, so like I told them, leagally I could only build a 8ft wide barn or building :D this isn't much of a shop,I told them there are barns,shops, homes,carports and canopy's all over the place that aren't 50ft.from the property lines or 100ft. from the road and they just ignored me, I think you have to buy a variance from them to build closer to the lines, I am going to check into this, there has to be something one can do to satisfy them :confused:

I asked my neighbor how he got away with building his were it's at and he said it was because there was an old building in it's place before the huricans took it out :confused: but he also built the old one,,,,without a permit :(
So as it stands right now,,, it don't look good as far as my shop goes
 
#9 ·
In Michigan the rules are far different. BUT, you can usually file for a setback variance. Especially if your lot size will not allow. Be careful, as there are all kinds of regulations. Set backs and lot sides. Number of out buildings, Height of building, Some do not allow certain types of buildings, some regulate size to square footage of property. Most (in Mich.) will not allow a building that has more square footage than the dwelling. (apply for variance) Intended usage, (you will have to sign an agreement that no commercial use etc.) Types of doors, number of windows, drainage, etc.

Then comes electrical permits, mwchanical permits (heater etc) (sometimes0 driveway permits.

Been there a few times and going thru it now trying to get a 36x80' erected on 40 acres in the middle of no where, North western Michigan.
 
#10 ·
Draw up your plans and submit

Draw up your plans and submit them to the local building dept..be sure and show some setback like say 20' to allow access to the back of your property. Be nice and play a bit dumb with the building dept and what ever you do do not get mad at the guy at the counter..

When it comes back denied on the basis of the local setback rules then apply for the variance. This is a classic as the rules are not reflecting the reality of what is one the ground.

The app should then go to the hearings examiner at which time you present your case..Most times the hearings examiner will see your point and allow your permit. It is quite common for rules to get changed or put in that so not allow for older undersize lots..

Hope this helps

OMT
 
#11 ·
OneMoreTime said:
Draw up your plans and submit them to the local building dept..be sure and show some setback like say 20' to allow access to the back of your property. Be nice and play a bit dumb with the building dept and what ever you do do not get mad at the guy at the counter..

The app should then go to the hearings examiner at which time you present your case..Most times the hearings examiner will see your point and allow your permit. It is quite common for rules to get changed or put in that so not allow for older undersize lots..

Hope this helps

OMT
This is what happened to me, I wanted to build a second story on my house, directly over my existing structure, using the same foot print that I have. Had an architect draw up the blue prints, ect... Applied for the permits and was denied, due to a change in the set back laws, talked back and forth with the officials, and 2 weeks later still had to apply for a variance. The city wanted me to have the second story kick back almost 11 feet in the rear of my house, (could you imagine what that would look like) I went to the Zoning Board of Appeals prepared with additional quotes for the support beams, new drawings, the additional man labor hours and my argument of no further land would be used, plus the added tax $$$ I would be paying to the city for the larger home, the benefit of neighborhood improvement, ect.... Make it sound like you are doing something for them, and do your homework, be prepared and don't listen to the neighbors.

Like OMT said don't get mad at the officials (they can and will make your life difficult). For the most part I think the ZBA is just another way to collect money. And yes I was granted the variance to build what I wanted to build.

Steve :welcome:
 
#12 ·
Still hashing it over

I want to thank you all for your help on this, I just called the ZBA but they were closed, I left a mesage asking how much a Variance is going to cost me and if I appy for one would they then let me build where I want to, I also got an email from one of them and they said that unless I use the land for agra. purposes that I have to have a permit, I have a pot bellie pig, does this count :D So I have two of saying no permit is needed and two saying it is, so that part is still iffy, I made a copy of my survey and drew in to scale where I want to build but you are saying to draw up three,in this do you mean a drwing showing the shop in other locations? Then let them pick and tell me which is the best? I am going to get a permit, just to be on the safe side, $50.00 now could save me a lot of headaches on down the line,Thanks again, I will let you know how it goes :) Bugs (Don)
 
#13 ·
Barn going up soon

A variance is going to cost me $497.00 for the side set back, I don't have to worry about the front, I have plenty of room to spare there, so I guess it is finally time to start shelling out the dough to the county so I can build on "MY" property,(this sucks) thanks again to all of you for your comments and help on this :)
 
#14 ·
Hi Bugs. This is whats great about Mississippi, no building codes or zones out in the county. If your not in the city limits here you can do whatever you want. I like it like that. Later man, the Crappie are biteing, gonna sore lip them all! Lmao.
 
#15 ·
Not here by god

I sure wish it was like that here, I have been told Florida is the worst state there is when it comes to code enforcement and zoning crap :( Good luck with the crappie, I blew my motor(Mercury) so I will be down for a while I guess :(
 
#16 ·
Those codes are there for a reason. To protect your investment. When they want truss ties or hurricane bracing, it keeps your valuables still valuable.

I overbuilt my polebarn (2 zones higher for trusses), and I STILL worry about the contents when we have a big storm. And we dont get ANY winds like yours. 50 mph is about it. Inside the barn, she gets AWFULLY noisy when its windy. Everything is screwed and glued. I did it ALL myself, to be sure NO shortcuts were taken.

The barn cost me $10K to erect, maybe 20K total. Its protecting one heck of a lot more ! I want to keep ALL of them for quite some time. Insurance SUCKS, if you ever had to file a claim.
 
#17 ·
Bugs,
I'm an architect in Michigan but I might be able to help. Your first step should be to visit your local building department with a copy of your mortgage survey and a crude sketch of your planned pole barn marked up on the survey drawing. Be sure to draw it to scale. Indicate how close (by dimensions) the barn will be to property lines, overhead and underground utilities and nearby buildings, including neighbor's buildings (if they are close by).

Your building department clerk will be able to explain your options and the necessary follow-up steps. After all, he is paid by you, so use his services.

Don't listen to your neighbor. He sounds like he is Mr. I Think I Know It All" but doesn't have a clue. Lately the wind has been blowing a bit around there. A pole barn makes a great sale in the wind. Make sure it is anchored well into the ground, otherwise your neignbor is going to be asking you for rent to park your building on his property.

Pole barns can be a little less expensive to build, but don't try to wish away the forces of nature. You will not come out on top in the long run. Quality lasts, and in the long run it will cost less to maintain and operate. Good Luck! :thumbup:
 
#19 ·
Thanks for the advice jpd37, you are 100% correct about my neighbor, he is a total "I know it all and your not going to convince me other wise" type of guy :) I can't wait to get me a building put up and show him that he's not as smart as he thinks he is :D My wife and I are hashing over the idea now of going two story with a all metal building/shop and doing it right to start with, I do a lot of wood working also so I was thinking I could put all my tools for this upstairs and keep my heavy things below, this would also take up less room in the yard, with all the hurricans and high winds we get here it surely needs to be built strong so at least if I go with a company that installs them the shop would be built to stand up and not sail into my neighbors yard like you said :D Of couse this is going to depend on the county letting me do it, they should as my neighbor went two sotry with his, he parks his travel trailer underneath and has a shop/storage upstairs, I might even get the company that did his give me a price along with the other I check with,
And this way it will be built faster, it would take me a long time to build a pole barn myself :) I just ain't as young as I used to be :( Take care and thanks again, Bugs :)

Henery Highrise, This 40hp Mercury that is on my boat is the one that was on it when I bought the thing and it too has give me nothing but trouble since day one, my B.I.L. has a 90hp Yamaha on his bout and he loves it, But I can't bring myself to pay the high price they are asking for a four stroke right now with me wanting a new shop and Mig/Tig welder , the wife will only give so much if you know what mean :D I have a 70hp Johnson that I am going to put on it for now, my boat is only rated for up to a 40hp and I don't know just what the "Man" is going to have to say about me over powering the boat but I am going to see if I can get by with it for a while, I have asked around and can't find anyone that has been caught so I don't have a clue about what they will do if I get checked :confused:
There are around 600 members in the fishing club I belong to and none of them have ever done it or know of anyone who has so I guess I will just have to try it and see, as far as the boat goes I am sure it will handle it, it may get a little squirrely in a turn but it is now with the 40hp on it so I know just how sharp I can turn while running, I'll let you know how it does, right now it shrimping season so I can get by with our bigger boat for this and do the swap some time this winter, my big boat needs a gimble bearing replaced and it's good to go, later, Bugs :)
 
#20 ·
My minds made up (finally)

Since I decided to do this shop all leagal like and get a permit and pay the set back charges I have decided to go with an all steel building instead of a pole barn type shop, I talked with a guy last night that installs them and he said he could put me up a 24' X 40' with one entrance door,one 3'0"X3'0" window and one 10' X 8' roll up door for $5500.00 plus tax, this doesn't include the slab of course but I have some buddy's that do concrete work so we can do the slab ourselves for around $1500.00 for materials and what ever kind of beer they drink :D

I think this will be the best way to go , then it will be done a lot faster and not a whole lot more money than a pole barn, I will post some pictures as soon as it's done, thanks again for all your help and advise :) Bugs
 
#22 ·
Bugs said:
Since I decided to do this shop all leagal like and get a permit and pay the set back charges I have decided to go with an all steel building instead of a pole barn type shop, I talked with a guy last night that installs them and he said he could put me up a 24' X 40' with one entrance door,one 3'0"X3'0" window and one 10' X 8' roll up door for $5500.00 plus tax, this doesn't include the slab of course but I have some buddy's that do concrete work so we can do the slab ourselves for around $1500.00 for materials and what ever kind of beer they drink :D

I think this will be the best way to go , then it will be done a lot faster and not a whole lot more money than a pole barn, I will post some pictures as soon as it's done, thanks again for all your help and advise :) Bugs
Pre-engineered steel buildings have a good record in hurricane country compared to pole barns and frame construction. Like jpd37 said, though, make sure it is well anchored. Don't tolerate somebody just using a Hilti gun to fire some nails through the post bases into a slab. You want real anchor bolts. Also, check the wind load rating. The spacing of the fasteners in the roof and sidewall panels has a big effect on that. You will want to check the manufacturer's specs against the completed building. High winds are not a fun way to discover you have half enough fasteners in the sheet metal.

You'll also appreciate having a clear span. A pole barn can be built 24' wide with a clear span, but it's more involved.

You don't have to wait until it's completed to post pictures. Sidewalk supervisors are plentiful! :) Good luck to you.
 
#23 ·
Thanks for the advice on the fasteners and the roll up door, the guy that is going to put it up came over last night (This is a freind of the family that we have known since he was little) and told me more about it, he seemed to think a taller door should be used too,If I wanted to use them I already had three roll up doors(used) for what ever I decided to build so what we are going to do is take one of them apart and use the panels from them to make two taller doors,and said he will knock off the price of the one on the original plans, he said the building comes with a 3 ft. screw in anchor every 6 ft. plus I am going to use the L shaped 3/8" anchor bolts in the concrete , I don't trust the screw in anchors only, so I think it will stay put, if not I am sure that at least the bottom plate and the slab will stay in a hurrican and I can start all over :D

My wife and I have decided to put it in the back yard, I will just have to have some fill dirt brought in to build it up a bit, it does get very wet back there because of a low spot right in the center of the yard but where the shop is going it's dry,

He talked me into going with a 30'X40' building also, he said then I will have enough head room at the peak to later install a floor and make me a loft up stairs for my wood working tools or what ever, he claims the rafters will support a lot of weight and that he can "hang" to floor system from them so there will still not be any center post downstairs to be in my way, I guess I will find out,

I think I will take some before and after pictures , right now all I have to take a pictures of is the valueble junk I have to go through and move so we have a place to put it :D :D More to come :)
 
#24 ·
Anchor bolts

I would install a larger anchor bolt and have a proper footing as the main thing in wind load is up lift of the building in a wind storm..Ask your buddy if he has any examples of enginered foundation drawings for your building..Usually (hopefully) the provider of the steel building has those drawings made up for your local area..

The idea being that if you were to get slammed, you may lose a panel or so but the building remains standing..

May be overkill but the buildings I have built are still there..

OMT
 
#25 ·
We talked last night about the footing, he said they normally set these building on 12"X12" flat paveing stones if the owner doesn't plan on pouring a slab and then hold it in place with the 3' screw in anchors, damn this, I want this thing bolted and anchored, he said he would come over and help me form and pour the footer so he can lay out where the anchor bolts go so they will be out of the way of the uprights, also the type of building I am getting won't have any over hang where the roof meets the walls, it will be rounded like these carports you see everywhere, this will help cut down lift and the chance of the wind getting ahold of the roof,

He said these buildings come with a 125mph wind load warrenty so that's pretty good I think, I have a 12' X 30' aluminum screened patio on my house and it survived the three storms we had last year without any damage, I hope my shop will do the same :) I live 30 miles from the sea shore so there is a lot to slow them down by the time they get to me, however I did loose 9 oak tree's last year :(
 
#26 ·
The paving stones work fine as long as the anchor rods are screwed in good. All the pavers are doing is providing a foot print to keep the steel from sinking into the ground. Most mobile homes are anchored with the screw in anchors. They go at least 3' in the ground. Similar anchors hold utility poles up. I've done it both ways. If you want to get the building up before you can get the slab done, pour your own footers. I'd go about 18" deep (has to be below frost line, but aren't you in FL?) and 18" square. Pour one of those where every beam touches the ground. If you have a slab poured, make sure you get the specs from the building manufacturer first! They will want thickend edges (6"-12" back from the edge is thicker than the center) and will want thicker concrete where the anchor bolts are set in the concrete if you want to eliminate the screw in anchors and cables/straps. With the cables/straps, the only thing the anchor bolts do is keep the "feet" of the columns from shifting -- the anchors and cables/straps keep it from lifting up. So MAKE SURE they know you don't want the cables/straps so they can give you a proper foundation plan.

The drilled in anchors are as good as set in bolts if done right. They need to be a minimum of 3x the diameter from any edge. There will be recommended anchor size and depth for your building that will conform to the desired/designed wind load. The engineers would make sure to spec the correct bolt -- you just have ot make sure the contractor uses what's spec'd!

This is part of what I do for the USAF!

My pole barn will be clear span, 30' wide. Poles are 10' on center with 30' trusses. I wanted to do it all myself, but can't get time off and enough help for a long enough period of time to do it all!
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top