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Old 06-26-2013, 06:53 AM
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Ridge reamers are verboten... One can easily take too much material, creating a situation where the over-bore may need to be larger than it really needed to be. Since you're not re-using rods or postons, how they come out is of no real concern.

The pistons won't come out the "bottom" in the Pontiac.

If you're doing a quality rebuild, the crank will need to be ground, so don't sweat small "dings". The stock rods and pistons go immediately into the scrap pile.

Nothing wrong with a mild solid roller. We use a roller grind similar in parameters to the Pontiac 041 (Ram Ar IV) cam. MUCH smoother, both at idle and across the range, than the flat-tappet. The "downside" is the added $700... But we HAVE done a F.A.S.T. Class 461 make well over 500 HP with that cam (230 @ .050, INT AND 236, EX, about .540" lift). 19" of vacuum, too!

Jim
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Old 06-26-2013, 03:46 PM
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I was trying to do it on a budget but it seems I will be spending money either way.. do I save much by keeping/grinding the crank and buying rods/pistons, or am I better looking at balanced rotating assemblies?

Much thanks..

Last edited by spawn_x; 06-26-2013 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:04 AM
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The factiory cranks are every bit as "good" as the aftermarket castings. The forgings are MUCH better, but are "overkill" in this situation. Just make sure you deal with a quality shop. NEVER buy machine work based strictly on price. Good work will make good use of the new parts. Bad work will make scrap metal out of them.

Jim
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Old 06-27-2013, 09:55 AM
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Thanks.

N-casting





The workbench..
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:20 AM
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I hope you yake a lot of care when transporting the crank!
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:09 AM
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N casting

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Old 06-27-2013, 11:53 AM
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That crank is fine. We routinely grind the mains to 3" and the rods to .050" under (BBC).

Yes, with any giood rebuild, balancing is called for. It's mandetory when rods and pistons are changed.

Jim
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Old 06-29-2013, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. P-Body View Post
Speed Pro L2359F-xxx is the piston of choice here. Icon also has the FHR technology version at a reasonable price. Both are tough forgings. Good stuff. The Speed Pro is a "replacement" piston, so clearance is "tight" (compared to other forgings) and the ring pack is stock.

MANY 455 blocks (and 400s of the same era) were drilled for 4-bolt caps but didn't have them installed. No need at this level.

Jim
Mr Jim I am reading all your posts on the board and you are a knowledgeable fella. Also saw you are CVMS so I will try and order some stuff through you

I did junk the rods as you suggested and through an older car guy at work found a terrific machine shop (F & F Automotive in North Hollywood)

If I may ask a question - though I wanted a "budget" build it seems sensible thing to do is to still buy new rods / pistons - that being said, since I am spending money on parts and will be balancing it, it seems a good idea to spend only a few hundred more to get a rock solid bottom end

My goals were modest, but if I can build the bottom end to handle 550hp for only a little more money, I would like to go that route, as it leaves the option to go for ported heads/intake and other goodies in the future. The car will never be a dragster, just a street vehicle, and looking for solid reliability, would like to overbuild bottom end so it will never be a worry (no spun bearings in the future)

I read that you are a fan of Eagle products - should I go for Eagle rods? The Speed Pro piston - if I want something lighter / stronger, what is the suggestion? I'm reading that TRWs are considered heavy in the performance world

Logical to spend a little more $$ to build the better bottom end?
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:35 PM
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The best crankshaft shop I've ever seen was in Upland. Wilson Bros. If they're still in business, that's who you want to "do" the crank. I'm sure your machinist knows about them. I left SoCal in 1980...

The RPM rods and Speed Pro pistons are nearing their limit at the 550 HP level. The pistons can "take" much more, but are too heavy for a modern build above this. If there's a chance you're going to "catch the fever", Eagle rods and Icon pistons are the next better level for reasonable money. Using the BBC 6.8 rod and the appropriate piston significantly improves internal geometry and makes the bottom as tough as it needs to be short of 800 HP. Safe to 7,000 RPM if you can "feed" it. I like to keep the large-journal blocks to around 6,400 due to oil pressure and temperature. Icon supplies the more popular configurations of the "stroker" pistons.

Use Federal Mogul main bearings and Clevite "H" series rod bearings. We've also had good service from King performance rod bearings (when BBC sizes are used).

While it's apart, tap the lifter bores for restrictors. If you DO catch the bug, a solid cam is in your future, and it's nice to not have to tear it all the way down just to do this. It has no effect on a hydraulic cam if no restrictor is iinstalled.

Feel free to e-mail me directly. And while I do appreciate the thought, I don't solicit work or sales on sites like this.

Jim
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Old 06-29-2013, 02:17 PM
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Thank you for the valuable info
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Old 07-02-2013, 03:31 PM
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Wilson Bros is indeed out of business (about 5 years now) but he still picked up and gave me another place Marine Crankshaft in Santa Ana

he quoted me around ~440 to grind the crank, 125 to heat treat it, 125 to balance - seems high for the grind
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Old 07-03-2013, 11:52 AM
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WAY high for a grind. We charge $120 for a V8 without "special" requirements. The "expensive shop" in our area charges $160. There is no heat treating needed, it's a CAST crankshaft. If he insists, RUN AWAY!!! (after gathering your parts) The only "treatment" done to cast cranks is nitriding, and NOT necessary with the 103 casting. These cranks have been tested under racing conditions up to 1,700 HP and are fine. IT'S NOT A CHEVY... (so the same "rules" don't apply)

We charge $200 for balance. I'd be a little concerned $125 is not ENOUGH... (skipping something somewhere)

It all sounds a little "fishy" to me.

Jim
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