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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-06-2004, 05:17 AM
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69Bird here's the specifics on your heads. They are 67 400 heads with small chamber and small valves (1.92 intake and 1.64 exhaust) with pressed in studs. To really make these heads perform would cost well over $1000. There is no way the 6X heads are the same as these. The 6X heads will have 2.11 inch intakes and 1.66 exhaust valves and better designed intake and exhaust ports and have larger combustion chambers and will have screw in studs. Depending on which 6X heads you may run across (4's are the better ones due to smaller chambers) these would be a very good choice for a 455 or a 400 stroker motor. Also if your 4X's are from a 2 barrel 400 Catalina engine they are also not a good choice for performance due to the same restrictions as your 143's. I have one of these engines in a 69 Pontiac Custom S I recently acquired and even though I will use the block I'm going to use different heads but not sure which ones yet as I'm not sure of the performance level I want to achieve yet as I know that I don't want to stay with a compression ratio of 8:1. The only advantage the 143's will give you is an increase in compression to around 10.25-10.50:1 which is just a tad to high for pump gas in a Pontiac.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-06-2004, 09:35 AM
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thanks for the information goat. so how do I tell if they are from a 2 or 4 barrel engine?
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 10-06-2004, 07:12 PM
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If the 400 will find its way back into the car then why dont you just drive the car the way it is (if you can) and just save up for the stroker. You are just adding an extra step (actually multiple steps) by going to a chevy and them back to a Pontiac. I mean its not hard, just kind of a waste if you think about it. But its totally up to you. I would save that money I would use on the smallblock and put it into the Pontiac. In the long run you are paying for a smallblock AND the Pontiac. Just my 2 cents!

If you are interested in a set of 6X heads, I do have a set. They are #4's. I pulled em off a 350. Let me know if you are interested. I was gonna use em on my build up but I'm gonna go with the edlebrocks
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2004, 03:41 AM
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69Bird, if the 4X's have small valves (same as the 143's) then they are the two barrel heads. Bandit have you checked out the new aluminum heads Kauffman Racing developed? They are a D-port head and are available with either 65 or 85cc chambers, and priced about the same as Edelbrocks and don't need any port work as they come ready to bolt on. There is a good post about them in the Perfomance Years tech forum (as I'm a member there also) along with dyno and track testing on a low compression 455 in a 73 Ventura that one of our members owns. 69Bird the heads that Bandit has offered you would be a good choice for you for now and definitely better than what you have now.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2004, 10:34 AM
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Grusome, I have read some about the kauffmans. I will check out performance years to find specs. It would actually be easier to use the kauffmans since my d-port headers would be able to be used again. I will check it out for sure.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2004, 11:33 AM
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are there only one kind of the 143 heads? because the valves on those heads are huge. i asked the machine shop if they were going to put bigger ones in them and he said that I couldnd go any bigger. but I really dont know
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 10-08-2004, 04:48 AM
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69Bird the 143 heads were only used in 67 and had the small valves. Bigger valves could be put in but it would be cheaper to find some better heads. The 670's I have on my GTO have the large valves (2.11 in intake and 1.77 exhaust) so you machinest is wrong and very possibly doesn't know anything about Pontiacs.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2013, 11:45 AM
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Pontiac 467

I'm working on a 72 Pontiac Ventura, pulled the 68 400 out and put in a built 428 (467 now) Edelbrock Rpm heads, 305/305 duration 0.630/0.630 lift custom grind cam and dyno's 630 hp with 1050cfm carb... Been around a lot of pontiac motors and people like to build the 455 or 428's from what I have seen........ Just my 2 cents

D. Balkevitch



Quote:
Originally Posted by Grusome Goat View Post
1BAD80 good to see you back. 69Bird you can get the entire kit from KRP (Kauffman Racing Products) Jim Butler, Pontiac Dude (Ken's Speed and Machine) or Ken (Ace) Brewer at Pacific Performance Racing or SD Performance. All of these have the kits or can build your engine. These kits from Kauffman have a 3 inch main stroker crank (Based on the 455 crank) 6.800 BB Chevy rods and and custom SRP pistons, and also come with the rings and bearings. Also if you have the funds get a set of Kauffmans aluminum D-port heads. I read about the 462 stroker from Kauffmans awhile back and it came out to 462 cubic inches ( I believe that was with a .060 overbore) and made 564 horsepower and compression was at 9.5:1 and will run all day long on pump gas with a hydraulic roller. Either way if you go with your 400 whether you go the stoker route or just want to build it up some I would stay Pontiac in the Bird. I have run 400's for years and the thought never crossed my mind to put a Chevy engine in my GTO, why should I? It would cost alot of money to get the torque out of the Chevy that the Pontiac already has plus I love taking my my stock block 400 and put the fear into some guys in my area that are running 400 small blocks that have had extensive work done to them and I've even posted better times with my 400 than my Club President has with his 71 455 T/A. My .02 worth. Goat
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2013, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbalkevitch View Post
I'm working on a 72 Pontiac Ventura, pulled the 68 400 out and put in a built 428 (467 now) Edelbrock Rpm heads, 305/305 duration 0.630/0.630 lift custom grind cam and dyno's 630 hp with 1050cfm carb... Been around a lot of pontiac motors and people like to build the 455 or 428's from what I have seen........ Just my 2 cents
D. Balkevitch
A 400 block with a stroker crank is stronger than a 428 or 455 block because of the main journal sizes. I had a 455 block start to split at under 730 horsepower. For the street only, I would say that the 3.25" main block would be fine, but for racing, go with a 400 block. Also this thread is about nine years old.

Bill

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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 06-06-2013, 06:57 AM
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Bill is correct. We build FAR more 3" main engines than 3.25". Between the "hole" down the middle of the block (main tunnel) being smaller (more "meat" in the bulkheads) and reduction in bearing "speed" (oil temp), it's all "goodness".

There have been only a handful of 3.25" IA-II blocks made, but hundreds of 3". Also consider, the Pontiac crank is 4" shorter than the BBC crank, and has 1/4" larger mains. Same is true of Hemi/RB MOPAR. The Pontiac crank is stronger than either of these. The block is the "weal link", and the aftermarket block cures that, at least to about 3,000 HP (Butlers have made that much on a dyno). Ours was 2,200 and lived fine at 9,000. The block never wimpered.

Considering how old this thread is, most of the info has been superceded. We'er now building street engines well over 700 HP on 93 octane. That may have been possible in '04, but not "probable".

Jim
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 09-08-2013, 05:04 PM
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That is the kit my friend has , he is convinced I am the one to put it together (because of my lil drag car 383) tried to explain to him I'm not some kind of engine guru just careful , no short cuts and study the job first ,build it in my sleep sort of thing
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2013, 04:46 AM
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Just noticed the original post date on this thread.... Forget about it....
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2013, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by ok71camaro View Post
That is the kit my friend has , he is convinced I am the one to put it together (because of my lil drag car 383) tried to explain to him I'm not some kind of engine guru just careful , no short cuts and study the job first ,build it in my sleep sort of thing
The thread is fairly old with some recent in put. I do admire your diligence in searching older threads for information before before you start an engine build, you can never get enough information.

I see that you are fairly new to this site and just to reassure you, there are a lot of members that extensive knowledge on how to build a Pontiac engine properly, several of them posted on this thread in June of this year on this thread.

Just a heads up. Read up from previous threads as you have been, learn much as you can, start a new thread explaining exactly what your goals are going forward and you will be amazed at how much CURRENT knowledge your going to acquire.

Welcome to the site, I joined to learn about the latest and greatest things available for Pontiac's...I was not let down.

Ray
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 09-09-2013, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ok71camaro View Post
That is the kit my friend has , he is convinced I am the one to put it together (because of my lil drag car 383) tried to explain to him I'm not some kind of engine guru just careful , no short cuts and study the job first ,build it in my sleep sort of thing
There are some differences between Pontiac and Chevy engines, that's for sure. But nothing that is insurmountable by any means. It's like you said, pay attention to details and research the project. After all, we ALL built our first Pontiac at some stage, right?

There are several members here who will answer your questions including myself, so feel free to ask away! In the meantime, some info you may find useful:

Pontiac info/sites
Pontiac engine info
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