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Old 05-07-2003, 09:23 PM
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Post pontiac engine and head questions

Im building my 455 this summer and I want to go all out on this engine as it will be my main rice killer. I was thinking of a roller cam but have no info on them. How good are they, where are there strong points and will one help with power and torque. I plan on saving up for a while so money shouldnt be too big of a concern,all I do is car work with my paychecks. Why are 6X so much more sought after than 5C when the 5C has a smaller chamber than some 6X's and bigger valves? i have a set of both heads and dont know what i will use yet. If I need to I will go to .040 but it might be ok as is. (there was rust in the bores looks like a hone will clean her up, not taking chances i plan to have it looked at by a shop.) and it was last rebuilt in 94 or sooner due to the cam date, nothing is worn in it so the crank can be reused the rods look good have new arp bolts. The car is a 77 Lemans sport coup XL and not a light car, I want to get as much hp and torque as possible what cam should go in this beast? Should I stay with flat tops or go with slight domes if I need to bore it? I need to keep compression reasonable around 9.0:1-10.0:1 in ND we have crap for high perf gas. 90 oct is about the best I can get at the average gas station some have 92 but its not cheep. Its not a daily driver though so thats ok. I plan on going to the strip with it too when its gutted a bit. Also any one know what rear end ratio the 455's like? I want to go manual 4speed but so far I cant find one. I may have to go th400. thanks for your help. p.s. is a torker 2 intake good or is its power band too high? it came with one and i was wondering keep it or go dual plane?

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Old 05-08-2003, 06:21 AM
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Not trying to dodge the 6X vs. the 5C question but if money is no issue I would go with Edelbrock heads. With a slight port cleaning you can get flow numbers much higher right out of the box then you can with any D-port. As far as gearing don't go any bigger then 3.73's with a 455. They're low RPM torque monsters. Invest in some aftermarket rods too. The Torker 2 is an excellent intake for that motor. Which version of 6X do you have? 5C's are similar to 6X-8's cc wise. I've seen conflicting info on some charts regarding the size of the exhaust valves (1.66 or 1.77) on 5c's. I tend to think they're 1.66. You can have the heads opened up to accept 1.77's though. Here's a good head chart for reference...
<a href="http://www.angelfire.com/on/geebjen/heads.html" target="_blank">Pontiac head chart</a>

[ May 08, 2003: Message edited by: 6567GTO ]</p>
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Old 05-08-2003, 12:10 PM
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thanx for the chart. i have 094's so dont feel bad. Butler said mine would be better after he got done with them than the 4bbl heads. but that is like a grand worth of work. from the chart, i would have to say it's cause of the higher compression. i dont know about these engines cuz i havent had the bucks but i need to know too. i just bought a performer at a swap meet last week and now i am also looking for a hot cam but i have to get my heads to butler or see what <a href="http://www.sdperformance.com" target="_blank">www.sdperformance.com</a> can do for me as they are just an hour from me
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Old 05-08-2003, 04:27 PM
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Wow, Sd is that close to you? He has an excellent reputation bullheimer (so does Butler). I'd go with SD if you're that close. Basically almost ant D-port can be made to flow like a Ram Air IV or better. Let a guru do the head porting. It's the best bang for the buck for Pontiacs.
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Old 05-08-2003, 07:53 PM
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Ok I cc'd my heads and even though the numbers dont match up they both had water trying to overflow at 100cc.( I forgot to bring a peice of plastic with to get a perfect reading.) with a 100 cc graduated cyl(yet again not the most accurate thing ) I had water slightly rising out of the chambers so I think they are both the 98 cc chambers and are both 6X 8 castings. does any one have a set of these and if so what exactly do they both say or should just one have the numbers on it ( 8 or 11) . also where can I find the full number on it. all i can locate is the date code and 6x, GM8 or GM11. I will try again tomarrow with all chambers and with a peice of plexy glass on top to seal it better. in the end I plan on having the shop look at them but it would be nice to know if they are worth the time or mismatched. also did those come with bronze guides? these have them. thanks for the help
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Old 05-09-2003, 04:29 AM
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Here's another link describing how to identify 6X heads...

<a href="http://home.att.net/~gtoken/6xident.html" target="_blank">6X identification </a>
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Old 05-09-2003, 09:49 AM
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Hey Phil,

Nice seeing you here.

My two cents here...the e-heads even in stock ( professionally assembled, not over the counter from edlebrock)configuration without ANY porting but some cleanup would net a 455 in the area of 500hp/585 tq range. That is with a RAIV "style" cam.

Should be more than enough.... john
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Old 05-09-2003, 11:02 AM
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Hey John! Welcome aboard dude!
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Old 05-09-2003, 11:15 AM
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WOULD "E-HEADS" be eldelbrock? these machine shops aint cheap. could just about buy edelbrocks for their prices. and shipping those hunks o'iron cant be cheap either. but i have a friend who is racing up in abbostford BC now so i will be able to putt them up there if i cant get away on a fri. afternoon and camp out at the track. i am wondering about hookers 1 5/8 comp. headers. the guy at jet-hot says they are more than adequate for up to 450 HP. i doubt i could ever get that much out of my 326 and they are only $399 vs $600 for the super comps. am i crazy for even thinking about hopping up my 326? if so, then i will get 400 heads, then when i get a short block together i can swap all my parts over. would a raIV cam work good for me w/head work?
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Old 05-09-2003, 11:55 AM
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In all honesty bullheimer the 326 isn't worth doing. You can find a 400 fairly easily which would make a much better choice. A 428 or a 455 would be better yet. If I was starting from scratch again I would use E-Heads (Edelbrock Heads) vs. cast iron D-ports on a 455. Hooker Comps supposedly don't fit as well into certain cars and the primary tubes aren't cut to a certain "tuned" length as the Hooker Super Comps. You can also buy a rotating stroker kit form several of the Pontiac Engine builders which would turn your 400 into a 455. Ram Air IV cams are good but they're a bit old in design. You have to figure out what the rest of your combo is as well before you slect a cam. A Ram Air IV cam or better will require stiffer gears in the rear and a higher stall converter etc... Email Dave Bishop at SD Performance. He's a good guy and will take the time to answer your engine questions and will also steer you in the right direction. Give hime some time to respond because he's a busy guy, but he will respond.
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Old 05-12-2003, 07:43 PM
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Ok thanks for the help I found the #'s. there both 8's now all I have to do is clean em up .
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Old 05-13-2003, 03:36 PM
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I CANT TELL you how many times i've heard that! but this guy i talked to today was telling me his 326 really woke up with a performer even w/o headers. said people he's talked to think the 326 can be souped up, but i dont think he knows what he's talking about. the people i've talked to are guys like bisshop and jim butler who know something, but.. they are too busy to do anything else than say what you said. i dont want to win at the strip, i just need my GO to match my SHOW, and not get blown off by a honda. i think i either have to change engines or learn how to put together a turbo set up out of a junk yard. twins would be better yet, but i dont know squat @ turbos and used parts, what to look for or what to avoid. plus 400 engines aren't all that common. they want 500 for runners with gobs of miles, and they are usually low compression engines.
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