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-   -   Poormans quest for high 7's 1/8th mile w/ 383 (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/poormans-quest-high-7s-1-8th-mile-w-383-a-218510.html)

High School Hot Rod 04-22-2012 07:24 PM

Poormans quest for high 7's 1/8th mile w/ 383
 
Alright this post is all about getting my 78' camaro into the 7's using what I have plus a small budget. My setup is currently a 3900lb camaro w/ me in it, 3.42 rear gears, lockers, slapper bars, 26in et drags, 3 speed manual, simple 383(scat9000 crank, stock 5.7 rods w/ arp bolts, hyper pistons, ported 441's), holley 750, stock hei with all aftermarket goodies. I'm probably going to write the longest post you've ever seen but it will be necessary, because I'm not blowing smoke this time. I'm going to get things done. My goal is to build the ultimate budget beater, and prove to people that you dont need to buy all the expensive stuff and that if you do your homework the richest guy doesnt always win the race

I tore apart the 383 today and looked over the short block because that is all ill prolly use of it. All looked good but I will use fresh bearings, rings, and glaze break it. The Plan for the engine is a solid ft cam. Some assembled heads that I spend $800 or less on (I'm open to procomps and used stuff from racingjunk.com) roller rockers, summits airgap style intake, 6al box or maybe a knock off, and using my holley 750.

I have flat top hyper slugs with 5cc of valve relief and sitting anywhere from .024-.028 in the hole. If i used a .028 gasket so i had around the ideal .050 quench and used 64cc heads I would get CR of 10.8. But I live in montana and can only get 91 octane and will drive the car at elevations from 3k-4800ft. I'm not familiar with the practices of calculating dynamic CR and using cam timing to bleed off some compression,but would love if some helped me pic a cam, gasket, and head cc size that would be 91 octane friendly. The car is a street/strip car but I am willing to sacrifice a little low end power with a bigger cam since I do want to be a contender at the strip.

For heads Iím really open to anything within my $800 price range. Iím not against buying bare pro comp 210ís cleaning them up a bit and assembling them myself. I almost want to try them because everyone hates them so much. Iím also considering iron eagles, sportsman IIís, or large port vortecsÖwhat do you guys think.

As far as what is behind the mouse trap I want to keep the very rear about the same. I would consider numerically higher gears but not to wild it is a street/strip setup. For the transmission obviously the 3 speed has to go. Iím think stock rebuilt turbo 400(everywhere on craigslist) but add a full manual valve body so higher line pressure can be ran and hopefully increase the longevity of the tranny. When it comes to the convertor im not afraid of 3500+ stall as long as itís of good quality like a hughes and a good transmission cooler is in place.

So what do you think? I want to hear all the opinions you got. Thanks Kurt

F-BIRD'88 04-22-2012 11:44 PM

This heavy slug car needs 4.56:1 gears.

You are not going to do this with 3.42:1 gears.

To tame the 4.56 gears for street use get some tall 29 to 30" rear street tires.
L70-15 P265-70-15 P255-70-15

383 Brodix IK200 heads
isky 201534 cam
9" to 10" 3600+ stall converter.

Anything you can do to lighten the car is a bonus.

its takes leverage (gears) to move a heavy car.

The transmission will last longer if you don;t convert to a full manual valve body. A street strip Shift kit than retains the auto shift and trans vaccum modulator to soften the part throttle shifts is much much easier on the trans.

Full time bang shifts is very hard on the trans. And it won;t make the car faster than a street strip shift kit set up will.
Adding extra high gear clutches in the trans (requires machining the high gears clutch drum) adds durability and power capacity.
Don;t bother with a OD trans. You won;t save gas.
A cammed up motor wants to rev.

A car with a high stall converter will not perform with a wimpy 3.42 gear.
The car never gets off the converter.
Its will not work. You won;t like a converter and 3.42's

How to run 4.56 gears on the street:

60 MPH cruising rpm will b e a very tame 3350 rpm using 4.56 gears and 29" tall street tires.

The 26" tall ET streets and 4.56's are just right for the track for this 2 ton slug.

The IK200 heads are availble in 64 and 70cc chambers
Summit # sum-162111 200cc "street strip" aluminum heads are the same for $100 less.

This heavy car will be very happy running 4.56 gears a 10" 3600 stall and tall 29" street tires on the street.
and be very happy with 4.56 gears 26" et streets and a 10" 3600stall at the track.

3.42 gears will not work

Get some 4.56's and P265-70-15 or P255-70-15 rear street tires.

F-BIRD'88 04-23-2012 12:39 AM

What is "lockers". There are only two differentials you should be using in the stock 8.5" GM camaro rear axle. Use the Aftermarket Eaton Posi or the Auburn Gear limit slip differential. Either one or the other work assume and trouble free.

Do not use a spool or a locker or a loc-rite rear.
Save money by just running a stock GM HEI w the MSD HEI coil and stock GM module. Use the MSD HEI wires. This is all the ignition power you need.

High School Hot Rod 04-23-2012 01:48 AM

Thanks for the reply i think i scared some away by asking to much. I knew some higher gears were coming. Although I dont think I could do 4.56's I live 60 miles from anywhere...and i literally mean anywhere. Therefore I like to get where I'm going in a timely manner so 4.10's would suit me a little better. Unfortunately when I was 16 I thought some powertrax lock rites were a slick deal for the money so that's what I have, an auburn would be really nice tho. I like the cam you recommended for i was actually looking at a howard cam that had a 248/252 spilt but different lift. Although I'm still concerned about getting a "Montana pump gas friendly" dynamic compression ratio. I dont know what buy when it comes to heads there is just to many options iron eagles, sportsman II, ik200, procomps, patriots, eq. Im not that knowledgeable of trannys so ill take your word. Thanks again I really appreciate it.

F-BIRD'88 04-23-2012 03:07 AM

You need to loose 1000 pounds out of that car.
Then get a 5 speed manual transmission.

If I had to drive 60miles to any wear I would find much lighter car to put the 383 in. This will allow a street friendly rear gear ratio and strong acceleration.

some choices are a 79 to 86 Mazda RX7
third gen camaro base model sport coupe not Z28 or Iroc or T top
Pinto or Vega or Monza
85 ish mustang or capri.
Corvette
Ford ranger truck Mazda B2000
Early short WB S -10
Early Datsun truck
Datsun 240Z
Early chevy II Nova

Remove everything that does not make the car go , stop or steer.

A car that is 1000 lbs less with have a 1 second ET reduction.
Thats the easy poor mans way to go fast.
Easier on gas too.
The lighter the car, the more street friendly a high stall converter is.
The lighter the car the lower the gear ratio can be ans still accelerate hard.
A low compression ratio pump gas friendly supercharged motor is much more tolerant of a modest rear gear ratio, especially in a light car.

A lighter car is always better. Especially if you have a limited budget.

F-BIRD'88 04-23-2012 03:18 AM

How did this car run at the drags so far? ET MPH 60FT

ap72 04-23-2012 07:10 AM

If you're really shooting for the 1/8th mile then you'll need those 4.56 gears and probably a 5500 or more stall. 1/8th mile has very little to do with driving 60 miles though so you may want to rethink your goal if you plan on putting any serious street miles on this car.

my87Z 04-23-2012 08:11 AM

even with the right cam it will be hard to get 10.8:1 to run on pump gas. i would guess since you talk about this being a street/strip car that you have a dragstrip in your area, so i'm pretty sure you can get racing fuel there. you may have to buy racing fuel and mix with 91 octane, or buy some 104 octane additive and put it in everytime you fill up. this is pretty much what i do, i bought a 55 gallon drum w/ eclectric pump and had it filled with sunoco 110.

i have seen where people have bought the ProComp 210 heads bare and had them cleaned up and assembled with the parts they choose, and the motor made decent power, but i'm not willing to recomend these heads just do to my own personal opinion. i would look around for some used heads that just need to be cleaned up, you will probably want to look for a alm since they will tolerate higher cylinder pressure on pump gas.

since your tires are only 26" tall i would say that your 3.42 gears will probably be fine, i wouldn't advise you to go over a 3.73.

on my old set up i used to have a howards solid f/t cam that was 240/250 @ 050 and .525/525". this cam did very well well for me, it still had good throttle response for the street and decent mid range to around 6000rpm power.

Greg T 04-23-2012 08:14 AM

He states he's runing a 3 speed manual trans.





.

ap72 04-23-2012 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg T
He states he's runing a 3 speed manual trans.





.

I presume he means manually shifted th350 as he talks about a 3500 stall

Greg T 04-23-2012 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ap72
I presume he means manually shifted th350 as he talks about a 3500 stall


Yeah, I didn't quite understand that either.

joelster 04-23-2012 06:16 PM

Since you are familiar with racingjunk, that should be where you shop for some goodies. Lots of converters and cylinder heads to choose from. Not sure why your 2nd gen is 3900lbs, i'm going to assume you are a big guy though. Get some weight off wherever you can. Front and rear bumper supports are easy to remove, and you can also remove the front wheel wells. I would get any aluminum aftermarket head you possibly can over 195cc's. Stall over 4k, cam over 240 degrees at .050", get yourself a single plane intake. Victor jr's can be found everywhere for $50-$75.

What does it run right now?

joelster 04-23-2012 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by my87Z
even with the right cam it will be hard to get 10.8:1 to run on pump gas. i would guess since you talk about this being a street/strip car that you have a dragstrip in your area, so i'm pretty sure you can get racing fuel there. you may have to buy racing fuel and mix with 91 octane, or buy some 104 octane additive and put it in everytime you fill up. this is pretty much what i do, i bought a 55 gallon drum w/ eclectric pump and had it filled with sunoco 110.

The tune, the plug heat range, the cylinder head material, the amount of timing, the density altitude (he's way up) all have a bearing on whether it will live on pump gas. I'd bet money he'll be fine. My car is at 11.77-1 static and it purrs on pump 93.

Quote:

Originally Posted by my87Z
i have seen where people have bought the ProComp 210 heads bare and had them cleaned up and assembled with the parts they choose, and the motor made decent power, but i'm not willing to recomend these heads just do to my own personal opinion. i would look around for some used heads that just need to be cleaned up, you will probably want to look for a alm since they will tolerate higher cylinder pressure on pump gas.

He's got a pretty tight budget, but anything will be better than those iron dinosaurs he's running now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by my87Z
since your tires are only 26" tall i would say that your 3.42 gears will probably be fine, i wouldn't advise you to go over a 3.73.

Totally agree. Makes no sense to go with a 4.56 gear and THEN buy a taller tire to knock it down a bit, like guys are recommending in the other thread. In fact I would leave it alone and see if it makes it to the 7's just the way it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by my87Z
on my old set up i used to have a howards solid f/t cam that was 240/250 @ 050 and .525/525". this cam did very well well for me, it still had good throttle response for the street and decent mid range to around 6000rpm power.

A cam like that would be really good here. I'd wake it up a little with some 1.6 rockers and the appropriate springs. It should pull a little higher than 6k though. Maybe you didn't have enough cylinder head to feed the motor?

F-BIRD'88 04-23-2012 07:57 PM

You want to spend all this money that you don;t got on all this stuff
when all you need to do to make this car fun at the track and fun on the street is suck it up and put some gear in it.

Otherwise you can wave your magic money wand all over it all you want and its still going to be a slug with 3.42 gears.

Fresh up the motor as is and put it all back together and change the gears to 4.56:1. keep the 3 speed trans and all and go have fun.

Get some taller street tires for street driving.

A hi performance motor wants to rev.

High School Hot Rod 04-23-2012 08:23 PM

Alright well to clear the air the the car currently has a manual three speed transmission. The weight of the car was also a rough estimate, I am a bigger guy at 6'3 230. And I'm not looking to get deep into the 7's just want to get into the 7's. I know I'm wanting to have my cake and eat it too. I'm will to strip the car for weight loss to some degree. I dont need big stereo, back seat, front fender wells. I don't know how how much that will save me but it might be worth a try. I can do 4.10's anything higher is just not going work for what i want. If this is a factor that puts me in the low 8's so be it. I like my car and like to drive it and dont plan to replace it with something lighter.

I took it to the track once but only had an open 3.08 differential at the time with some crappy street tires. With one tire a fire for half way down the track my best et was a 9.1. The next day race a nice old man let me race his 71 chevelle that ran consistent 7.70's. After that i was hooked enough said.


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