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-   -   Poormans quest for high 7's 1/8th mile w/ 383 (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/poormans-quest-high-7s-1-8th-mile-w-383-a-218510.html)

High School Hot Rod 04-22-2012 08:24 PM

Poormans quest for high 7's 1/8th mile w/ 383
 
Alright this post is all about getting my 78' camaro into the 7's using what I have plus a small budget. My setup is currently a 3900lb camaro w/ me in it, 3.42 rear gears, lockers, slapper bars, 26in et drags, 3 speed manual, simple 383(scat9000 crank, stock 5.7 rods w/ arp bolts, hyper pistons, ported 441's), holley 750, stock hei with all aftermarket goodies. I'm probably going to write the longest post you've ever seen but it will be necessary, because I'm not blowing smoke this time. I'm going to get things done. My goal is to build the ultimate budget beater, and prove to people that you dont need to buy all the expensive stuff and that if you do your homework the richest guy doesnt always win the race

I tore apart the 383 today and looked over the short block because that is all ill prolly use of it. All looked good but I will use fresh bearings, rings, and glaze break it. The Plan for the engine is a solid ft cam. Some assembled heads that I spend $800 or less on (I'm open to procomps and used stuff from racingjunk.com) roller rockers, summits airgap style intake, 6al box or maybe a knock off, and using my holley 750.

I have flat top hyper slugs with 5cc of valve relief and sitting anywhere from .024-.028 in the hole. If i used a .028 gasket so i had around the ideal .050 quench and used 64cc heads I would get CR of 10.8. But I live in montana and can only get 91 octane and will drive the car at elevations from 3k-4800ft. I'm not familiar with the practices of calculating dynamic CR and using cam timing to bleed off some compression,but would love if some helped me pic a cam, gasket, and head cc size that would be 91 octane friendly. The car is a street/strip car but I am willing to sacrifice a little low end power with a bigger cam since I do want to be a contender at the strip.

For heads Iím really open to anything within my $800 price range. Iím not against buying bare pro comp 210ís cleaning them up a bit and assembling them myself. I almost want to try them because everyone hates them so much. Iím also considering iron eagles, sportsman IIís, or large port vortecsÖwhat do you guys think.

As far as what is behind the mouse trap I want to keep the very rear about the same. I would consider numerically higher gears but not to wild it is a street/strip setup. For the transmission obviously the 3 speed has to go. Iím think stock rebuilt turbo 400(everywhere on craigslist) but add a full manual valve body so higher line pressure can be ran and hopefully increase the longevity of the tranny. When it comes to the convertor im not afraid of 3500+ stall as long as itís of good quality like a hughes and a good transmission cooler is in place.

So what do you think? I want to hear all the opinions you got. Thanks Kurt

High School Hot Rod 04-23-2012 02:48 AM

Thanks for the reply i think i scared some away by asking to much. I knew some higher gears were coming. Although I dont think I could do 4.56's I live 60 miles from anywhere...and i literally mean anywhere. Therefore I like to get where I'm going in a timely manner so 4.10's would suit me a little better. Unfortunately when I was 16 I thought some powertrax lock rites were a slick deal for the money so that's what I have, an auburn would be really nice tho. I like the cam you recommended for i was actually looking at a howard cam that had a 248/252 spilt but different lift. Although I'm still concerned about getting a "Montana pump gas friendly" dynamic compression ratio. I dont know what buy when it comes to heads there is just to many options iron eagles, sportsman II, ik200, procomps, patriots, eq. Im not that knowledgeable of trannys so ill take your word. Thanks again I really appreciate it.

ap72 04-23-2012 08:10 AM

If you're really shooting for the 1/8th mile then you'll need those 4.56 gears and probably a 5500 or more stall. 1/8th mile has very little to do with driving 60 miles though so you may want to rethink your goal if you plan on putting any serious street miles on this car.

my87Z 04-23-2012 09:11 AM

even with the right cam it will be hard to get 10.8:1 to run on pump gas. i would guess since you talk about this being a street/strip car that you have a dragstrip in your area, so i'm pretty sure you can get racing fuel there. you may have to buy racing fuel and mix with 91 octane, or buy some 104 octane additive and put it in everytime you fill up. this is pretty much what i do, i bought a 55 gallon drum w/ eclectric pump and had it filled with sunoco 110.

i have seen where people have bought the ProComp 210 heads bare and had them cleaned up and assembled with the parts they choose, and the motor made decent power, but i'm not willing to recomend these heads just do to my own personal opinion. i would look around for some used heads that just need to be cleaned up, you will probably want to look for a alm since they will tolerate higher cylinder pressure on pump gas.

since your tires are only 26" tall i would say that your 3.42 gears will probably be fine, i wouldn't advise you to go over a 3.73.

on my old set up i used to have a howards solid f/t cam that was 240/250 @ 050 and .525/525". this cam did very well well for me, it still had good throttle response for the street and decent mid range to around 6000rpm power.

Greg T 04-23-2012 09:14 AM

He states he's runing a 3 speed manual trans.





.

ap72 04-23-2012 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg T
He states he's runing a 3 speed manual trans.





.

I presume he means manually shifted th350 as he talks about a 3500 stall

Greg T 04-23-2012 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ap72
I presume he means manually shifted th350 as he talks about a 3500 stall


Yeah, I didn't quite understand that either.

joelster 04-23-2012 07:16 PM

Since you are familiar with racingjunk, that should be where you shop for some goodies. Lots of converters and cylinder heads to choose from. Not sure why your 2nd gen is 3900lbs, i'm going to assume you are a big guy though. Get some weight off wherever you can. Front and rear bumper supports are easy to remove, and you can also remove the front wheel wells. I would get any aluminum aftermarket head you possibly can over 195cc's. Stall over 4k, cam over 240 degrees at .050", get yourself a single plane intake. Victor jr's can be found everywhere for $50-$75.

What does it run right now?

joelster 04-23-2012 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by my87Z
even with the right cam it will be hard to get 10.8:1 to run on pump gas. i would guess since you talk about this being a street/strip car that you have a dragstrip in your area, so i'm pretty sure you can get racing fuel there. you may have to buy racing fuel and mix with 91 octane, or buy some 104 octane additive and put it in everytime you fill up. this is pretty much what i do, i bought a 55 gallon drum w/ eclectric pump and had it filled with sunoco 110.

The tune, the plug heat range, the cylinder head material, the amount of timing, the density altitude (he's way up) all have a bearing on whether it will live on pump gas. I'd bet money he'll be fine. My car is at 11.77-1 static and it purrs on pump 93.

Quote:

Originally Posted by my87Z
i have seen where people have bought the ProComp 210 heads bare and had them cleaned up and assembled with the parts they choose, and the motor made decent power, but i'm not willing to recomend these heads just do to my own personal opinion. i would look around for some used heads that just need to be cleaned up, you will probably want to look for a alm since they will tolerate higher cylinder pressure on pump gas.

He's got a pretty tight budget, but anything will be better than those iron dinosaurs he's running now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by my87Z
since your tires are only 26" tall i would say that your 3.42 gears will probably be fine, i wouldn't advise you to go over a 3.73.

Totally agree. Makes no sense to go with a 4.56 gear and THEN buy a taller tire to knock it down a bit, like guys are recommending in the other thread. In fact I would leave it alone and see if it makes it to the 7's just the way it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by my87Z
on my old set up i used to have a howards solid f/t cam that was 240/250 @ 050 and .525/525". this cam did very well well for me, it still had good throttle response for the street and decent mid range to around 6000rpm power.

A cam like that would be really good here. I'd wake it up a little with some 1.6 rockers and the appropriate springs. It should pull a little higher than 6k though. Maybe you didn't have enough cylinder head to feed the motor?

High School Hot Rod 04-23-2012 09:23 PM

Alright well to clear the air the the car currently has a manual three speed transmission. The weight of the car was also a rough estimate, I am a bigger guy at 6'3 230. And I'm not looking to get deep into the 7's just want to get into the 7's. I know I'm wanting to have my cake and eat it too. I'm will to strip the car for weight loss to some degree. I dont need big stereo, back seat, front fender wells. I don't know how how much that will save me but it might be worth a try. I can do 4.10's anything higher is just not going work for what i want. If this is a factor that puts me in the low 8's so be it. I like my car and like to drive it and dont plan to replace it with something lighter.

I took it to the track once but only had an open 3.08 differential at the time with some crappy street tires. With one tire a fire for half way down the track my best et was a 9.1. The next day race a nice old man let me race his 71 chevelle that ran consistent 7.70's. After that i was hooked enough said.

68NovaSS 04-24-2012 12:07 AM

Your duplicate threads have been moved into this forum and merged. Please don't double post. :thumbup:

ap72 04-24-2012 07:39 AM

You'll need a clutch and trans that can handle the power... easier said than done. Maybe consider changing the trans to a well built 700r4 and tuning up the engine first. Even with the gears you have the trans and stall can make a huge impact.

my87Z 04-24-2012 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joelster
The tune, the plug heat range, the cylinder head material, the amount of timing, the density altitude (he's way up) all have a bearing on whether it will live on pump gas. I'd bet money he'll be fine. My car is at 11.77-1 static and it purrs on pump 93.


He's got a pretty tight budget, but anything will be better than those iron dinosaurs he's running now.


Totally agree. Makes no sense to go with a 4.56 gear and THEN buy a taller tire to knock it down a bit, like guys are recommending in the other thread. In fact I would leave it alone and see if it makes it to the 7's just the way it is.


A cam like that would be really good here. I'd wake it up a little with some 1.6 rockers and the appropriate springs. It should pull a little higher than 6k though. Maybe you didn't have enough cylinder head to feed the motor?



i used 1.6 rockers on the intake and 1.5 rockers on the exhaust side to help even out the dual pattern cam, my heads were DART 200cc platinum's with decent cleaning up done. the motor pulled past 6000rpm but my peak hp (512) was made right at 5900rpm.

i never said that it was impossible to run 10.8:1 on pump gas, but as you mentioned, a lot goes into making it run on pump gas. my previous set up was 10.4:1 and could run on 93 pump gas. my current set up has 11.2:1 and does not like pump gas.

my87Z 04-24-2012 05:58 PM

i understand why Fbird is telling you 4.56's (not that i agree), the 4.56's will utilize more of your motor while running down the track, but for your case i think they may be a bit much. i could be wrong but i dont take this as you want to have a more strip style car but would like a street car that will be raced at the track from time to time.

when i say that the shorter gears will utilize more of you motor i mean that one of the main ideas of drag racing is to use every bit of motor that you can. so you want you car to be running through the traps in it's final gear at it's max rpm ei if you shift at 6500rpm then you want to running through the traps at 6500rpm. using this idea since seem only interested in the 1/8mi then the shorter the gear the better. but when you want to drive this vehicle on the street and not be running 3500+rpm at 60-65mph then you have to find a happy medium.

High School Hot Rod 04-24-2012 08:46 PM

I agree with fbird88 that i do need more gear. summit sells a 3.90's for my 8.5 and i think that would be about ideal for me, but 4.10's sound tempting. My goal for my car is to eventually to be a nice prostreeter street/strip ride. I do have acces to race gas but i really dont want to go that route. 91 at highest. I've been playing around with a dynamic CR calculator and the cam would have to be way radical to get a dynamic CR around 8:1 which to my understanding is pump gas worthy. But I could use some help deciding whether I should use a thicker head gasket and sacrifice quench distance, or use 72cc heads and give up quench area. But 91 is a definite must.


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