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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2010, 08:07 AM
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35 years ?

There was a saying when I was an Engineer at Ford "One year of experience repeated ten times "

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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2010, 10:41 AM
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Joeguitar . Yup, you are right in that I don't understand electrons and molecues and ionization but it has never hindered me in my ability to make an internal cumbustion engine run in my 46 years as a mechanic . I was a State of Michigan cerified master mechanic until I moved in 1985 . And nothing on their test refered to electron ionization or what ever as the knowledge of such is irrelevant in making an engine run . And I think it is just plain arrogant on your part that you would come on this site and insult everyone just because of your scientific knowledge . Frankly my dear, I don't give a da## !
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  #123 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2010, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cool rockin daddy
Yeah, I'll throw the tomato at "Joeguitar". The reason being is the first line in his ridiculous post:

"Vacuum advances that receive manifold vacuum are generally due to smog control"

Totally opposite of what is true. Ported vacuum is the child of necessity when dealing with smog controls and ultra lean mixtures. The rest of his posts were just as unreadable due to the lack of usable information. But then again, maybe the molecules of my pc screen just weren't ionized enough to make sendse of them.
I bet I am not the only one who has noticed the discrepancy cited by CRD above was never addressed by our intrepid educator.

BTW, if a rich mixture helps so much in the ignition process, what with all those aligned ions and such , why is it that a nitro fuel car- and alcohol cars to a lesser extent- have such a hard time keeping the candles lit?

Quote:
Originally Posted by joe blow
If there were no oxygen molecules available (or other reactive molecules) the electricity could not travel.
An electric spark, or arc, will propogate between electrodess- IN A VACUUM. All it takes is enough voltage. The ions are supplied from the electrodes themselves.
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2010, 11:05 AM
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JoeGuitar,
Ions are not exchanged. If you're going to come on trying to sound smart, at least know basic HS chemistry. An ion is an atom or molecule that has a positive or negative charge. In other words it has gained or lost an electron. It is the electrons that are moving or being exchanged, not the actual ions.

The arc you see on a spark plug is not the transfer of ions, it is the transfer of electrons between atoms or molecules.

Now as to fuel burning, It's the oxidation of the fuel not the transfer of ions. In other words the oxygen atom has a low energy configuration that is a stable, relatively un-reactive diradical in a triplet spin state. Bonding can be described with three bonding electron pairs and two antibonding electrons, whose spins are aligned, such that the molecule has nonzero total angular momentum. Most fuels, on the other hand, are in a singlet state, with paired spins and zero total angular momentum. Interaction between the two is quantum mechanically a "forbidden transition", i.e. possible with a very low probability. To initiate combustion, energy is required to force dioxygen into a spin-paired state, or singlet oxygen. This intermediate is extremely reactive. The energy is supplied as heat. The reaction produces heat, which keeps it going. Simply put the free electrons in the spark plug arc, split the 02 allowing it to react with the Hydrocarbon molecule, which is not an ion yet. Pulling the hydrogen atom out of the hydrocarbon molecule creates the heat energy of the burn (Power) and leaves ions as the end result. The ions do not create the event they are the product of the event.

I'll see your 35 years as a mechanic and raise you a Degree in Nuclear Physics with a minor in Fluid Dynamics. Most of the guys on hear will run circles around me with a wrench, but today I get to play my nerd card.

Last edited by Landshark928; 10-05-2010 at 11:14 AM.
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  #125 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2010, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landshark928
...is a stable, relatively un-reactive diradical in a triplet spin state. Bonding can be described with three bonding electron pairs and two antibonding electrons, whose spins are aligned, such that the molecule has nonzero total angular momentum. Most fuels, on the other hand, are in a singlet state, with paired spins and zero total angular momentum. Interaction between the two is quantum mechanically a "forbidden transition", i.e. possible with a very low probability. To initiate combustion, energy is required to force dioxygen into a spin-paired state, or singlet oxygen. This intermediate is extremely reactive. The energy is supplied as heat. The reaction produces heat, which keeps it going.

*SNIP*

I'll see your 35 years as a mechanic and raise you a Degree in Nuclear Physics with a minor in Fluid Dynamics. Most of the guys on hear will run circles around me with a wrench, but today I get to play my nerd card.
You forgot your minor in Wikipedia, (see "Reaction mechanism"). From the Wiki:

Quote:
...is a stable, relatively unreactive diradical in a triplet spin state. Bonding can be described with three bonding electron pairs and two antibonding electrons, whose spins are aligned, such that the molecule has nonzero total angular momentum. Most fuels, on the other hand, are in a singlet state, with paired spins and zero total angular momentum. Interaction between the two is quantum mechanically a "forbidden transition", i.e. possible with a very low probability. To initiate combustion, energy is required to force dioxygen into a spin-paired state, or singlet oxygen. This intermediate is extremely reactive. The energy is supplied as heat. The reaction produces heat, which keeps it going.
Now, for all I know, you wrote the Wiki in question. But if not, it's poor form to quote from another's work as if it was your own.
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2010, 11:34 AM
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Hey there Landshark . I didn't understand a word of it but I loved where you were coming from . I am sure that will help me a lot on my next carburetor adjustment . ROFLMBO Me just dumb wrench bender but can make it run, okey doke ? Just bring it in .
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2010, 11:46 AM
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Damn, I wanted to drop my college electronics degree on Joe but landshark takes the nerd hat.

Joeguitar owes me a radio! Dropped it in my tub but my wife still lives. Damn gfi outlet

joeguitar, ohms law (as you posted) has no time variable. Resistance changes will not affect the time to change current. If resistance has such an effect on why timing is increased then whouldnt any of these items affect my timing: resistance spark plugs, helicore wire at 50ohms as opposed to standard 1500ohm per foot spark wire

I could drag this out by pointing out that the coil has way more energy than needed to create the spark but that the spark only occurs at the required level for whatever is between the gap. If you tossed metal pixie dust between the gap you'd get a spark easier than through air......but it won't happen until the dizzy says so. The dizzy is your time variable, the metal dust bewteen the spark gap won't make it occur faster even though the metal 'particles' would be close to zero resistance
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  #128 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2010, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt327
You forgot your minor in Wikipedia
The short time limit on edits sucks- plain and simple. I read my post, wanted to add a stupid " " to the above (so it would look like: You forgot your minor in Wikipedia ), but cannot- because a half hour has passed.

The limit needs to be raised.
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  #129 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2010, 01:38 PM
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respect, the final frontier

Quote:
Please explain to me how you judge people on a blog as respected. Do you know them personally? Know their families, character, friends, reputation, occupation. or anything else about them? I didn't think so. What's your criteria for respect? They write on the same blog as you? Big deal. I'm still trying to understand what your issue is...
Its quite simple, I respect them because they respect myself and others ON HERE while providing there input, it has nothing to do with there personal lives. You on the other hand have none of my respect till you stop with the insults, get it now?

And by the way, manifold vacuum for me any day. Joe why don't you tell us what you run without any insults or electro-mechanical dissertations
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  #130 (permalink)  
Old 10-05-2010, 04:00 PM
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Technical aspects of this thread went away a long time ago, Locking the thread.
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