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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2003, 06:10 AM
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Primemover,
I am no professional machinist, but then again neither are you according to your profile. I do know that both of the machist I have used in the past do not use this meathod you are talking about. I guess they are just neanderthals getting lucky that they are building all those 1000 plus HP N/A engines. I know the head guy at my local shop, and he does everything by hand.

Also, if you were a machinist why would you ever suggest using a fly cutter because you are in a hurry? That is like a painter accidentally saying that he used a Wagnor Latex gun for the urethane clear coat.

A burr and paper rolls will defenately work for a bowl port job, and it is what most shops use.

Chris

[ January 15, 2003: Message edited by: TurboS10 ]</p>

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2003, 06:45 AM
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I use a french scraper.

Using a tool to cut bowls out is great if your building 100's of engines of course, all the tool does is make it easier to remove lots of material in relative safety since you don't have to worry about hitting the seats. A die grinder has to eventually get in there to remove the inevitable ridge left from the cutter so what does that prove?

Either I don't get it or someone else doesn't, using a carbide cutter to grind cylinder heads is still the way all blending is done. Most of the big name Nascar guys are using CNC pocketed bowls and port match just so it is repeatable and identical from port to port, not that a person couldn't achieve the same results by hand. All these labour saving tools are just that, they are there so the guy behind the machine doesn't have to think.

Porting heads is not easy or quick, these tools drastically shorten the time to get to a hogged out port/bowl...but that doesn't automatically make it better...just faster...and more idiotproof.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 01-15-2003, 07:18 AM
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Just to add to all the fun.... The current trend in Winston Cup as far as port development is concerned is that along with in-house development, outside vendors ( namely cylinder head specialists) are contracted from all over the country to develop new port shapes. The vendor will receive a cylinder head section (raw casting) and Valves. They then grind, machine, weld, Marine Tex, use a paint scraper, whatever to develop the best shape possible to produce the best flow/power numbers. Sometimes it's not how much flow, but what the shape is that generates good power numbers. From there if the port shows some promise the shape is then digitized and converted to a CNC program. A full cylinder head is then CNC machined and put together for dyno testing. The vendor is obviously paid for the submission. This is one way teams are tapping into the vast resources available across the country.
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Old 01-15-2003, 05:58 PM
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If you'll notice, I said Bowl Hogs are needed for "initial" bowl relief. What is done to them after that, is up to the "flowmaster" doing the job. Hogs get bowls all uniform to begin with, and a lot faster and more acurately than even a so called 'expert' can with a die grinder. Frankly, I enjoy spending hours on the CC bench, rather then chasing my tail around in a valve bowl with a burr... Ultimately you'll all do what works best for you, irregardless... That's the beauty of being a backyard flow genius. If it works for you, it's gotta be just the ticket for everybody.
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Old 01-16-2003, 12:57 AM
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You guys probably don't about know Larry perkins but he's a race car engineer/Team owner/boss/head driver and ex Formula one driver, about 10 years ago I saw him on TV in his workshop getting stuck into set of heads for his new touring car with a carbide bur in his die grinder, he then drove that car to win the biggest race in Australia, a lot of the other teams had engines built by nascar guys in the states, he just retired a couple to months ago to dedicate all his time to his real passion of restoring vintage tractors and building up a museum for them, that's the kind of thing I like to see, who knows how many more Larry Perkins are out there but get scared to try doing there own stuff? who says the guy in the engine shop can port better than the guy in the fish shop just because they happened to end up where they did, I believe there are people out there with Ayrton Sennas driving skills that have never even driven a car!: )

<a href="http://www.castrol.com.au/motorsport/print_larry_perkins.html" target="_blank">http://www.castrol.com.au/motorsport/print_larry_perkins.html</a>
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2003, 08:56 PM
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Frog - look at the valve bowls on a stock set of 186's and tell me you want to wast time on them with a die grinder... I can spank those babys out with a bowl hog rough cut, and finish contour them for flow, with a carbide paddle, and be entertaining the little woman while you are still out in the garage having a tizzy, wondering if you're ready to stike water or not...

Dang! I really don't care what anybody does with a set of cast iron castings, as longs as they pull out the valves before they try to peddle thier mistakes at the swap meet.
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Old 01-25-2003, 02:46 AM
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I am lucky if I can take the die grinder off my little woman! since she got her own wood grinding bits for it :
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