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Old 09-08-2003, 02:48 PM
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Possible gain from 300 to 380 horses???

Would it be possible to gain from 300 horses and 360 ft lbs of torque to 380 horses and 415 ft lbs of torque (roughly) just by adding a better cam? Purchased car with 340 in it, think I may be able to beef it up with a cam that high. If so, what type of cam and how much lift... How can I also tell what type of cam is in there now?
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Old 09-08-2003, 02:56 PM
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Seems to me you should be able to pickup as much as 80 horse from a cam swap. I think it kinda depends on other factors.

Do you know if the 340 is stock? The folks here that are much more knowledgable than me will want to know things like;

Pistons - forged or cast
C/R - compression ratio
Aspiration - carb/EFI/blower
Chamber cc
Flow ratio
Deck height
rocker type

before they would recomend a cam for you. We are dealing with real professionals in many cases here.

BUT - A decent carb, headers, and a cam would certainly get this puppy breathing better.

BTW - nice lookin' car!!
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Old 09-08-2003, 03:08 PM
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well, i just purchased the car, and i know most of the fundamentals of the engine, except for the pistons, etc that you mentioned. So what I do have is an
edelbrock performance carb
weiand stealth intake manifold
mopar performance air cleaner

the thing is that i am not sure what kind of cam is in there already. i don't know how to find out actually, but my guess is that i am only putting out around 300 horses cause it is somewhat difficult to even spin my tires cause the car weighs so much. so my guess is it isn't a modified cam, but is there an easier way to tell?

and just from the info i gave you, is there any way to say what kind of cam would work best? i am looking for a cam mostly for torque from idle and up, because i like to street race, more of the immediate throttle response.

thanks
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Old 09-08-2003, 03:13 PM
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the only way I know of to get cam specs is take it out and have it looked at/measured by a pro. Someone else chime in here if there is another way.......

Also, this thing sounds kinda "doggy" considering what you've mentioned. Do you know what kind of rearend and gears are in it? That might be a little cheaper alternative to replacing the cam.

Gary
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Old 09-08-2003, 08:23 PM
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what do you mean by "doggy"? well i think, but not sure that it has a 3.54 or so, not exactly sure. will adding a 4.10 or so get what i am looking for?
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Old 09-08-2003, 09:18 PM
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Well, to answer the first question in this thread: No, a cam change alone will not give you 380 hp. Your heads, even if they are the very good 2.02" intake X-heads, will not flow enough air in stock, unported form to make 380hp. As far as switching to a new cam, take a look at the cam recommendations at Hughes Engines . I personally think that you would best off with their HEH1928AL at most, though I'm sure it will also necessitate a valve spring change to not only prevent coil bind with the extra lift but to handle the faster valve action of a Hughes cam. Couple that with a new torque converter like Mopar Performance's 166K (2250-2350 stall) or 175K (2400-2500, currently on national backorder), and a 3.55:1 or 3.91:1 rear end, and you would be much happier with the performance. Based on the 2200 rpm at 60mph you mentioned in the other thread, along with your tire size, it looks like your current ratio is a 2.91.

Last edited by slowturbo; 09-08-2003 at 09:24 PM.
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Old 09-08-2003, 09:48 PM
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Sorry 71gtx...I wasn't trying to slam your new ride by any means...I thought you said it wouldn't hardly turn the tires over so I "assumed" it may needs some driveline changes to get the RPMs up quicker. Thats what I meant by "doggy".

Slowturbo summed it up pretty good.

Oh yeah, and Nova Lover...why would you wanna waste a good MOPAR engine like that?
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Old 09-09-2003, 12:45 AM
E.T. divided by $ spent= Speed
 
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For a proper cam selection we need to know.
Rear gear
rear tire height
tranny auto/manual and what model
stall speed if auto
heads
compression ratio
headers(primary size) or manifolds
intake
carb cfm
weight of the car
From the sounds of it,you say you can't break the tires loose.Evan with highway gears and a stock cam you should be able to spin.Have you messed with timing at all??Sounds like it needs to be advanced a little.
I'm sure its possible to gain 80hp from a cam change,but it depends on what parts ya got to work with.But in my opinion anyway,its better to make less power in the right rpm range for your driveline than to make more HP in the wrong range.In other words worry more about matching the whole drivetrain(including the cam)rather than just sticking in a big cam in an attempt to make a big HP #.
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Old 09-09-2003, 01:57 PM
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slowturbo

SLOWTURBO:
so if i add 3:51 or 3:91 gears, and a cam that will help support the loss in power in high rpm's of the taller gears, and stall converter, it should be much better in take off and in higher rpm's?

as of now, i had my car timed, unless they did a poor job timing it, i don't know why i can't even get the tires to spin (i can if i try hard enough). ever since i added the new weiand stealth intake manifold, if i step on it immediately, it somewhat skips, almost as if its choked with air. should i mess with the timing or what?
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Old 09-09-2003, 04:14 PM
E.T. divided by $ spent= Speed
 
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Is the weind stealth a open plenum intake??Open plenum intakes move the rpm range up.For street use a duel plane is a better choice cause it makes power in the rpm range ya use most.Sounds like its killing some of your lowend torque.If ya got 3.55 gears now you should be running pretty decent.
As for timing I don't use a light I keep advacing till it pings a little then back it down till it stops,this way your at the peak of your total timing.If it starts hard hot once you've reach that point you need to recurve the distributor.
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Old 09-09-2003, 05:30 PM
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according to the manufacturers of the weiand stealth intake, which is holley, the stealth makes excellent power from idle to 6,500 rpm's. i used to have an edelbrock performer in there, and it did the same job, only i noticed that the stealth may do a little better. once i broke an easy out in the thermostat housing, however, i needed to change to the stealth. do you think that the change in intakes could need a re-timing? what do you fiddle with when you are talking about going until it pings?

also could it be because the stealth is taller, my throttle cables are not straight, they are on an incline?
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Old 09-10-2003, 01:00 PM
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The Weiand Stealth is a pretty darn good dual plane intake. Its a lot better than the Edelbrock Performer because the Perrformer has ports and runnerrs sized to match 318 heads instead of the much larger ports in a 340/360 head.

Quote:
so if i add 3:51 or 3:91 gears, and a cam that will help support the loss in power in high rpm's of the taller gears, and stall converter, it should be much better in take off and in higher rpm's?
You don't lose power at high RPM with a lower (higher number) gear ratio. It forces the engine to turn a higher RPM for any given speed. It also multiplies the torque at any given RPM by a greater amount. When you change to a more aggressive cam, it not only increases hp and torque, but shifts the power band of the motor to a higher RPM range. For example (and I'm just making up numbers to illustrate a point), if your stock hp peak is at 5500 RPM, and then you install a bigger cam, the new hp peak may be 6000 RPM.
You'll notice on the Hughes website that I linked before that some cams list an RPM range from idle to 3600, and that the 1928AL that I listed is rated from 1400 to 5200. Below 1400 RPM, that cam does not work very well, and with a 2.91 and stock converter it would stay below that RPM for quite some time at launch (or when you're trying to burn the tires) and be an absolute slug below 1400, when it would begin to come alive. Now take that same cam, and use it with a lower gear (3.55, 3.91) and a torque converter that will flash on take-off to a higher RPM than 1400, and the power will be much more impressive than stock. The converter and gear allow the engine to operate in the RPM range tha the cam wants.

Here's an example that I think you'll appreciate: My buddy has a 1970 Challenger R/T SE, 383hp with an auto. We recently put in the MP 166K torque converter (2250-2350 stall). Before the converter, he had to power brake it to get it to spin the 275/60/15 BFG's, even with his 3.23 gear (the car is not in top tune, its more of a show car). After the converter he is able to floor it without holding the brake and spin the tires for 30+ feet. The new torque converter allows the engine to get into the RPM range where it makes more power faster.
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Old 09-10-2003, 02:44 PM
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thats very interesting, i appreciate your help, and im starting to understand everything. does the torque converter work with the brake applied, or what?

also, would it maybe be wise to get a cam for idle to 6,500 rpm's if i wasn't looking so much for the torque converter detail? i rotated the tire on my car, 1.25 turns of drivestaft for one spin of tire and 2.75 turns for two spins of tire. i must have a weak rear end in there now then, huh? but with the 3 speed auto, it still puts the rpm's a little higher.
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