PPG Clearcoat - DBC Pearl and fisheyes - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Body - Exterior
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 02:04 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
PPG Clearcoat - DBC Pearl and fisheyes

I'm not REAL sure what to do, but I am prepared for the worst!! I am a hobbyist and trying to learn. I have done about 3 all-over paint jobs on my own cars. This is my first "trick" paintjob, so I have minimum skills
I did a search but couldnt really find a similar situation.
I am looking for some guidance and maybe hear from someone who has had a similar problem, or has a good idea how to remedy. I use PPG products

I am painting a fiberglass body.
K36 primer,
DP48 as a sealer.
2 coats of white base (Deltron DMD1684),
3 coats of Honda white pearl (tricoat) to the entire exterior,
Next day I added some decals in strategic areas and sprayed around them with PRLX4 (blue) and another area with PRLX6 (red).
((Mixed the PRLX4 & 6 in DBC500 to a "weight" of about 4%.))
Applied 3 coats of PRLX 4 over the decals, and PRLX6 in certain areas to match body contour. Removed the decals.
I took it to my buddies bodyshop to shoot the clear (2021)
Before I shot it, I cleaned it with DX330 using Scott towels from a box .....probably a mistake in hindsight. I wiped it on and didnt follow with a 2nd rag.
If you are already grimacing, you know where this went.
I waited about 15 minutes (it was 90 degrees in the shop).
Applied the first coat of clear and then followed with a 2nd after 10-15 minutes. It may have even been longer as I was mixing the paint.
After I shot it I noticed "fisheyes" in several areas. Primarily on the hood (where I started the DX330) and then on the passengers side quarterpanel.
So I only had 2 coats of clear on it.

Anyway, I sanded out the fisheyes using 1000 grit wet. Probably a waste of time. I know that I have sanded a lot of the clear down to a thin layer. In a couple places, I can see the white pearl and in several small places, I sanded thru the blue pearl.

I talked to a tech, and he said that I will probably have lifting problem b/c the clear is so thin in spots. He said I might try a couple tack coats of 2021 and then follow with sucessively heavier clear coats.

2 questions.
1) Since the last coat(s) before the clear were DBC500 based, would there be any benefit to just dusting it with several coats of DBC500 first and then clearing it?
3) should I just start over and sand it back to the primer coat?


Thanks in advance for reading this and any good suggestions. I need to get this done for a cruisin in October!!!

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 04:58 PM
TucsonJay's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 848
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 121 Times in 92 Posts
That is not my paint system, but...

I always add fisheye eliminator to the first coat of clear.

I also shoot the first one wet.

I'm curious... did you shoot the clear within 24 hours of the basecoat, or shoot in interim/midcoat clear first?) That would be for adhesion to the basecoats.

If you have fisheyes, I would try to flood them with the next clearcoat, or fill them with a brush, instead of ever sanding and risking going through to the pearl. At that point you will create major problems.... much worse than fisheyes.

Good luck.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 05:17 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by TucsonJay
That is not my paint system, but...

I always add fisheye eliminator to the first coat of clear.

I also shoot the first one wet.

I'm curious... did you shoot the clear within 24 hours of the basecoat, or shoot in interim/midcoat clear first?) That would be for adhesion to the basecoats.

If you have fisheyes, I would try to flood them with the next clearcoat, instead of ever sanding and risking going through to the pearl. At that point you will create major problems.... much worse than fisheyes.

Good luck.
It's my buddy's shop and he didnt want me to shoot eliminator. I have been told that once you shoot it in a booth, you always have to use it. (per PPG and others)

I am beginning to understand the problems I created by sanding the fisheyes. I had the local PPG rep here to discuss the problem and possible resolution. I guess it never dawned on him that I was going to have a problem when I sanded back to the pearlcoat to get the fisheyes out.

If I had it to do over I would have done as you suggested and flooded them with more clear in a 3rd and 4th coat.
IIRC:
I shot the last coat of base and then, almost immediately,shot one coat of pearl. (I shot it in 2 pieces i.e. - the main body tub and the nose)). I put the nose back on it and shot the last coat of pearl (within another 24hrs.) Then the next morning (Sunday) I shot the PRLX accents. As soon as that was tack free, I hauled it to my buddy's shop and started the clear ordeal.

I am thinking I am going to have to sand it all back down and start over
Thanks for your input.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 05:23 PM
Official Solventologist
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: New Orleans Area
Posts: 66
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
1) Since the last coat(s) before the clear were DBC500 based, would there be any benefit to just dusting it with several coats of DBC500 first and then clearing it?

3) should I just start over and sand it back to the primer coat?


1) - I would follow the advice of the PPG expert and dust on some clear. DBC500 is more likely to lift the thin layers of clear than the clear.

3) - If you sanded into the pearl layers I would think that spot would be noticeable after you clear it. If not then just clearing would be fine.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 05:46 PM
TucsonJay's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Posts: 848
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 121 Times in 92 Posts
Don't be too discouraged. Being a good painter takes a lot of practice. I have been doing this since I painted my first car at 15, which was really bad, but I was proud that I did it myself. As you do each job, the number of mistakes goes down. Today I am into the hundreds... but I still create a problem for myself once in a while. :-) Persistance is part of the game.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 09-04-2010, 11:35 PM
milo's Avatar
point on positive
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: milogarage Calif.
Age: 58
Posts: 1,681
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts
There is a way to be sure there are no fish eye risks (at least on the surface) before hand using the water skin break test..

**The last time I used a solvent based wax and grease spreader was in 1984..

http://www.a2zautoforums.com/showpos...66&postcount=7

I keep pitchin in the solution and a few have found it usefull..

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 09-06-2010, 08:45 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 3
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for all the tips. Next time I will be much more careful /observant in prep. It's hard to get a perfect job when the "booth" (which is actually just one side of a large garage with plastic wall) is sketchy. I shot the base/white pearl at my house and only had a few issues. I got a couple of small insects and small bits of dust, that I didnt see before I cleared.

I sanded thru the red pearl in a small pin head size spot. I hit the blue in another spot - it was dirt trapped under it and the clear, but above the base white pearl. I just sanded until it was gone.....ooops. I figured it's in an area I could cover with bed liner (it's an open door jamb).

Prbably the biggest area of fisheye was in the corner of the tilt nose by the windshield. That part is just white pearl, no red or blue. I didnt sand thru that but it is thin where I sanded down to the bottom of the fisheye divot.

I thought maybe I could airbrush the red and blue pearl / DBC500 back and then re-clear the whole truck.. That's why I called the PPG tech line in the first place. Then I got the bad news.

In hindsight, and for future reference......with repsect to the fisheye problem, what would have been the best solution?

Scuff and just re-shoot the 3rd and 4th coat of clear with fisheye eliminator???

I am not angry that I made a mistake, that happens. What annoys me is that none of the local "experts" could give me a good solution - before I made the fatal flaw of sanding the clear tooooo thin.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Body - Exterior posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.