[flipp121]

Hi everyone, I will be painting my car for the first time in the next while, I have experience with painting with rattle cans but thats it. I'm stripping the old enamel or laquer paint to bare metal as much as i can. I dont have 1000's of dollars to spend on paint but this isnt gonna be a show car either. I figured i can get etch primer, 2k primer, base, and clear in either PPG Omni or DuPont Nason for around $500 canadian which suits me fine. I have read through 10 pages of the message board, and my brain is going numb and i cant find a post related so here is my 2 questions:

-How will I handle my bondo if I am using an etch primer? I hear you dont want to spray etch primer over bondo or bondo over etch primer. I will not be using epoxy and etch, but I am still debating between using one or the other.

-Which brand would you prefer Nason or Omni? I hear awsome things about PPG from the board, but Nason seems fine too? Benefits? I wont be mixing different brands, so its either gonna be all PPG or all Dupont.

Thanks ANY opinions/replys are really appreciated,
Mark

[BarryK]

Why not skip the etch and just go with the epoxy?
Nason has a good epoxy.

I would lean to the nason at least with the clear but either base would work and they are about the same or close.

[67goat]

I Personally Prefer The Nason, Especially The Base, I Think There 3 To 1 Clear Is Allright...but I Dont Think You Can Beat The Nason Base, Mike.

[flipp121]

Well see I heard that etch primer will take car of some microscopic rust pits that i cant really get at, as well as providing better bonding to the metal? Epoxy just doesnt seem to have any benefits to me over etch? Am I right here?

[Centerline]

BarryK is correct. Etch primer is yesterday's technology. Epoxy is the way to go now days.

[BarryK]

In theory that would seem most logical.
However the theory is wrong on both items.

The pitts are an excellent place to trap acid and the acid etch will create short too long term problems in these areas.

It may work fine but that is a chance you will have to take.

[IROC100]

Flipp, I know that you said you don't want to mix brands, but with the epoxy primer I would get SPI. I don't know the cost of PPG or Dupount, but for a little over $100 you can get SPI and save a lot of time in sanding and prep work, just follow the instructions. As far as the rest of the materials I have found both products satisfactory

[Timer]

The OMNI MP170 is a good epoxy primer.
The OMNI MP282 is a good 2k urethane primer.
The OMNI MBC is a decent base coat.
The OMNI MC161 is a good clear.

[flipp121]

Kay thanks for the replies, I think I will go with Nason as that way i can save myself the 1.5 hour drive to the store. Only a couple more questions remain then i guess:

What are the benefits of epoxy primer over etch? I hear everyone talking that epoxy is better but noone has actually explained why.

And how much of each coat will I need for my car? It is a 66 olds four door about 205 inches long.

Heres what i figure for the amount:

-2 Quarts etch + 2 quarts reducer = 1 gallon sprayable (2 coats maby?)
-1 Gallon 2k Primer Plus 1 quart activator = 1.25 gallons sprayable (2 coats?)
-1 Gallon sprayable of base color (with reducer, activator, ect..) (2 coats?)
-1 Gallon of sprayable clear (2 more coats?)

Hows that looking?
Thanks
Mark

PS: I have no problem with going with epoxy primer but I still don't understand/see the benefits of it over etch? Seems to me it is more expensive and requires more skilled preparation of the metal? I don't see how phosporic acid getting trapped in those holes could cause a problem?
The only benefit I can see for using epoxy would be that i can do my body work over it and dont need to spray around the bondo?

[flipp121]

In reply:

-Thanks Mike I will use the Nason paint. My gut says dont use the Sherwin Williams stuff, and the PPG Omni has yet to be recommended (Except for Timer)

-Iroc, I really don't want to mix brands and since this car isnt going to go in a show or anything, and since my opinion on car paint hues and stuff is seriously lacking, I'll just stick with the Nason everything for simplicitys sake.

[sevt_chevelle]

OMNI imo = junk.

The problem with the acid is that it sits in those pits, never really flashes off.
Your 1 gallon of sprayable base is off. Depending on color you should consider 2 gallons sprayable with Nason or Omni.
Also your 1 gallon primer surfacer would be a good starting point. Depending on how bad the body is you will need several coats of primer.
More then likly you well need to spray 3 coats, block sand with 180 dry. Then apply 3 more coats, wetsand with 500 grit and paint.

[Bee4Me]

My $2.00 worth.
Instead of the 2K primer, If you have lot's of minor body dings,imperfections, use Evercoat's glaze, Metal Glaze or Easy Sand to do the filling ON TOP of the epoxy,(one of THE main reasons to use epoxy vs. etch) Then use Evercoats Feather Fill 2 Polyester filler primer to block with and then paint it.
Poly primers build LOT'S better than uro 2K's and you don't necessarily need a sealer unless paint color dictates which is not likely.
I have not used Omni lately so I have no opinion on it, Nason is OK for a value line but IF it was MINE, and a keeper, I'd go Chromabase or C'premier.
Yeah, It's more money, but IF you've ever painted with the 2 you'll have NO doubt as to which to use.
Ever paint your house with cheap house paint?
There is a reason Behr and Glidden cost so much.
You can do it in 1-2 coat or 3-4, Your choice.

[baddbob]

Use epoxy primer, skip the acid IMO. Just make sure your surface is clean and well sanded and adhesion will be excellent. There are a lot of budget epoxies out there that perform fine. SPI gets better reviews than any-priced right but a premium product. Nason and Omni both have decent epoxy primers. Transtar and Matrix are also being used by many and I have heard good about them as well. If you have a PPG industrial coatings supplied around the EPX-900 is also an excellent product I've used on many jobs. CRE-CT will also work if your're looking for some surfacer capability-this stuff is thick. Like Bee4me suggested-Polyester primers also offer a lot of fill with no shrinkage and very economical.
Omni will work ok if you're on a budget, but some colors don't cover very well and the clears don't have the projected lifespan of some of the premium lines available.

[62galaxiguy]

Ive used both omni is much "thinner" it needs more coats to cover. mike

[myfamiliacc]

I started with Omni as my budget brand to use, but once I tried Nason. I never went back.......except for Omni's SV highbuild primer.....I find it sands easer then Nason's K2 highbuild.