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-   -   prepping for Por 15 without the marine clean step (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/prepping-por-15-without-marine-clean-step-227616.html)

tech69 12-26-2012 10:54 PM

prepping for Por 15 without the marine clean step
 
does anyone know of any alternative to using the suggested marine clean? We have a quart of POR 15 and am wondering what I have to do to keep it from sheeting off. I hear you have to leave a little rust on it to bite into. Getting a mini blaster and am eyeballing this pitted trunk drop off on a 55 300 and am scared to blast it and then apply The Por 15 if it needs rust to bite into, but I'd like to hear more opinions on getting this stuff to stick before I take the word of one man. Any opinions greatly appreciated and if I can avoid the marine clean that's great.

mr4speed 12-26-2012 11:19 PM

Tech 69, speaking from personal experience with por 15 don't think there is any way to stop it from peeling off in sheets. Have used it over rust, prepped it properly over clean steel and still if you have to drill a hole or grind a small area to do a repair it seems it will always peel off in big areas. It just will not feather out like paint does. Just giving you my experience with the stuff, mabey someone else will have a better solution.

tech69 12-26-2012 11:24 PM

I have that same experience. I got a Mustang with it already applied and it did exactly that when I "peeled" some back for rust repairs.

I did the rest of the car with zero rust on the underside and trunk area. Had no problems with that.

mr4speed 12-26-2012 11:31 PM

I'm thinking just mix up some black epoxy and just brush it on like you would the por. You know once it dries it will surely not "peel" off.

gearheadslife 12-27-2012 05:24 AM

por only fails from user error.. or try'n to use another product..
FAQ's : Buy POR-15 : Gas Tank Sealer : Advanced-Rust-Protection.com

boatbob2 12-27-2012 11:08 AM

Por-15..........
 
:nono::nono: POR-15 Is garbage,i used all of the required materials,,when i did my 48 Ford Chassis,in 5 months that junk peeled off in sheets,,then i blasted the chassis,sprayed 3 coats of EPOXY PRIMER and 3 coats of 2K black paint,7 years later,it still looks great...

mitmaks 12-27-2012 12:54 PM

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i...i7jVDmPu1BSI7w
Only time I've seen POR15 fail is from user error. I have used it on numerous occasions and its still holding up great. I have not used marine clean underneath, just left rusty area (cleaned off scaling rust, dirt, etc) with a wire brush and POR15 went on. Still holding up great years later.

tech69 12-27-2012 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mitmaks (Post 1627585)
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i...i7jVDmPu1BSI7w
Only time I've seen POR15 fail is from user error. I have used it on numerous occasions and its still holding up great. I have not used marine clean underneath, just left rusty area (cleaned off scaling rust, dirt, etc) with a wire brush and POR15 went on. Still holding up great years later.

did you use that etch crap step they ask for or just clean flaky metal and go for it?

mitmaks 12-27-2012 01:57 PM

Just cleaned it real well, vacuumed any peeling rust w wire brush and went over it with 2 coats of POR15

1971BB427 12-27-2012 03:19 PM

I gave up on POR15 years ago! I clean the underside well, and then use Rustoleum satin black thinned with acetone to spray, or use a brush and roller to cut in and paint it on. I've had great results with Rustoleum, and it's very economical.

Lizer 12-27-2012 10:09 PM

The marine clean is just a degreaser, why would you not want to use it (or any alternative degreaser)?

Needing 'rust to bite into' is such a gimmick joke. POR is a physical bond and process; it isn't a chemical bond to the metal and it isn't chemically reacting with rust to stop it. It just uses its stupid patented little 'fingers' to grip the surface, and rust just happens to be convenient because it's equivalent to an etched surface. The metal prep that they want you to use as the second step is zinc phosphate, which is metal-etching, not to mention it does neutralize rust--the top few micrometers anyways. If it needs a physical substrate to bind to, then I give it a physical substrate by mechanically abrading the surface, just like you would for any other paint prep.

I treat these types of products as I do with any other paint product I'm using...I remove all the rust, sand with the grit I need, degrease, and if using one of these 'rust toppers' which I do admit to using (but have no belief or confidence in their efficacy), then I spray the area down with zinc phosphate, scuff and paint.

I haven't used POR, but I've used Eastwood's Rust Encapsulator, Bill Hirsch Miracle Paint, and Chassis Saver which are POR analogs...paint over rust, moisture cured, will stick your lid to the can if you have any paint in the rim, blah blah blah.

I've painted my entire gas tank with them, floor pans, wheel house, leaf springs, and rear axle housing/differential, this was 3 or 4 years ago. Needless to say nothing has peeled off or so much as hinted at peeling off, but there is rust poking back through.

tech69 12-27-2012 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizer (Post 1627783)
The marine clean is just a degreaser, why would you not want to use it (or any alternative degreaser)?

Needing 'rust to bite into' is such a gimmick joke. POR is a physical bond and process; it isn't a chemical bond to the metal and it isn't chemically reacting with rust to stop it. It just uses its stupid patented little 'fingers' to grip the surface, and rust just happens to be convenient because it's equivalent to an etched surface. The metal prep that they want you to use as the second step is zinc phosphate, which is metal-etching, not to mention it does neutralize rust--the top few micrometers anyways. If it needs a physical substrate to bind to, then I give it a physical substrate by mechanically abrading the surface, just like you would for any other paint prep.

I treat these types of products as I do with any other paint product I'm using...I remove all the rust, sand with the grit I need, degrease, and if using one of these 'rust toppers' which I do admit to using (but have no belief or confidence in their efficacy), then I spray the area down with zinc phosphate, scuff and paint.

I haven't used POR, but I've used Eastwood's Rust Encapsulator, Bill Hirsch Miracle Paint, and Chassis Saver which are POR analogs...paint over rust, moisture cured, will stick your lid to the can if you have any paint in the rim, blah blah blah.

I've painted my entire gas tank with them, floor pans, wheel house, leaf springs, and rear axle housing/differential, this was 3 or 4 years ago. Needless to say nothing has peeled off or so much as hinted at peeling off, but there is rust poking back through.

well I wouldn't want to use the marine clean cause I figured it was some sort of cleaner in which there's alternatives, and according to you I was right. Thanks, very helpful. Will degrease it after I blast it, then rust mort it, and brush it on. Thanks again. Just wasn't sure about it but I gotta use it cause it's there. Personally, I'd rather use Zero Rust with superclean metal.

Lizer 12-27-2012 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tech69 (Post 1627790)
well I wouldn't want to use the marine clean cause I figured it was some sort of cleaner in which there's alternatives, and according to you I was right.

ah yes, I see where you are going with that. :thumbup: Just use whatever degreaser you have. It just needs a grease and wax-free surface, like anything. For that matter there's a lot of cheaper zinc phosphate alternatives to their Metal Prep, as well. I was using a semi-local product (when I still lived in Iowa) by a company called PPC, and the product was called Phix (Corrosion treatment).

In fact I still use it to spray on bare metal to keep it from flashing. It turns the metal a nice light gray with a coating of zinc, but it's not foolproof.

On that note, I have found that if I keep bare metal clean and degreased, it takes a lot longer to flash rust. I figured this out from an observation I made when I had flash rust spots in the shape of my finger tips ;)

1971BB427 07-18-2013 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Wong (Post 1695566)
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Troll or spammer?

MARTINSR 07-18-2013 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1971BB427 (Post 1695641)
Troll or spammer?

Both :evil:


Brian


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