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Old 03-25-2012, 01:17 PM
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primer sank worse than the TITANIC!!!

Hi folks
just seen one of my old jobs today i done it about 3months back it looked absolute perfect when i finished with it.I couldn't believe it it all the sanding marks have shown up looks awful im not happy
PRODUCT :LECHLER GREEN 2K TI FILLER PRIMER
THE STEPS I USE

1)repair area (finish 180 grit)
2)clean area
3)apply etch
4)15 min flash
5)spray lechler fill prime (1)
6)5-7 min flash
7)spray lechler fill prime (2)
8)5-7 min flash
9)spray lechler fill prime (3)
10) flash 20 mins
11)infra red 30 min cycle
12)10 min cool down
13)guide coat - wet flat 500 grit
14)clean
15)ready for colour.
I know its better to leave filler primer for a while but i cant say to a customer 4 days to do a small repair any body had this prob??any help much appreciated

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Old 03-25-2012, 07:12 PM
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Thats what you call production shop rush-rush. It will come back and bite you in the backside more times than not. This is just one that you know about now ask yourself. How many more like this do I have out there. Etch prime is 80's tec. better than just primer but not as good as a coat of epoxy first. I always let my primer dry overnight. I just add that into my time line to the job. If they can't wait that long for their car then they can take it some where else.That's why I no longer work in production shops. I retired a year ago and I love it. Now I work out of my shop out back and make my own rules. If it isn't done today maybe it will be tomorrow. I never use a heat light on anything. hated when I had to use one in a shop and used as little as possible. Only good heat light is pull out in direct sun light.They'll cause you more headaches then they help.

Last edited by swvalcon; 03-25-2012 at 07:17 PM.
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Old 03-25-2012, 07:33 PM
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Any primer will shrink over as solvents evaporate, some shrink more than others. Best thing is to let it sit overnight or as long as possible. Use good quality epoxy primer under and over 2K primer surfacer.
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Old 03-26-2012, 04:12 AM
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Cheers guys epoxy is a thing i don't use but i am definitely going to start.so we are good to put body filler over the epoxy then?i have heard horror stories about the body filler not curing due to the primer underneath?Also guys im changing my body filler im gonna try EVERCOAT it seems to have good reviews?At the minute i use UPOL easy sand 1 and then use UPOL dolphin glaze to finish it off.Cheers for the reply lads much appreciated
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Old 03-26-2012, 04:50 AM
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All my primers get 2 days dry time.
I sand it after 24 hrs then wash and
let dry till the next day to paint.
For my own car I wait as long as a week for 2K
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Old 03-26-2012, 06:31 AM
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Gaday Hugh,never heard of that primer but evercoat is what I use I like the Zgrip along with their EZ sand finishing putty ,it works well for me...Like the others said you most likely didnt wait long enough for the primer to cure but if time is an issue for doing repair work then epoxy wont wont help much or prevent other primers on top from shrinking.I dont use epoxy at all on repair work,just grind ,fill and prime but when I grind I try not to sand off the epoxy thats already there,,,,I can suggest two 2k primers that'll work well for you..
For your production work there's a 3hr primer that everyone is raving about around here ,you can actually sand it after 3 hrs and paint that day with no force drying...,no etch coat ,just spray it over your filler and walk away.
For doing nice straight work when you need some filling qualities they make some very good quality primer that sands well. I use a lot of epoxy too on total strip jobs and this is the absolute best epoxy primer I ever used,hands down....not only does it seal up bare metal and stick like crazy ,you can build it and sand it easily but it takes time to cure and using filler over the epoxy will never be a problem ,matter of fact they work very well together,The best thing about these primers is they all come from the same company and the company has a hot line you can call for any questions or problems you may have...Its the first time I've ever been able to contact a company and you'll always get someone,it really is a hot line....All their products are top shelf but reasonably priced....The company is called SPI ,But dont just take my word for it .Go to the top of this page and click on the search button and type in SPI then read what the people that listened and tried it have to say..They also make some of the best clears I've used...check them out ,you wont be sorry...
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Old 03-26-2012, 04:59 PM
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Deadbody man you have words of wisdom my friend i checked out that spi it looks good gear only probs i do have is im in uk.I have a jaguar e type coming next month its a nice toy full resto job well its ready for paint its going to 95k worth when its finish so it must be done tip top.How long do you recon it will take to do the job ?What process / material would you use?
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Old 03-26-2012, 05:53 PM
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In that area it may be glasarit or sikkens..The upol is good stuff and I have used it here..main thing is to take your time and roll the car out in the sun for curing..

Sam
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Old 03-26-2012, 05:53 PM
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Yeah I though you were an aussi or a britt....
The first thing I'd do is call or email SPI to see if you can have it sent.....If not ,Glasurit would be my second choice but grab ahold of something tight when you get a price....
Its hard to tell how long a resto will take just to get to paint but first I would chem strip it to see how much damage is being covered up by paint and you never know what your going to find...Usually what I do is get a set price for stripping to metal and getting it into 2 good coats of epoxy...Once its stripped to the metal I'll check it out real good then call the customer back and show him what we found explain how we'll fix it and how much it will cost...
I'd allow a week for a good stripping job that includes all the jambs and epoxy but not the back side of doors,hood or deck,all that will be two weeks.
I have an old porche in the shop and I noticed a couple cracks in the paint so I explained that before I gave him a price I'd have to find out why those cracks were there and discovered over an 1 1/2 " of bondo in the entire 1/4 panel, some one did very poor repair by splicing a rear section but the new section was cut about an inch short then a filler piece was added so there was two seams running down. so it need a 1/4 for a proper repair once the customer saw this he understood completely how much work was involved and why I couldn't give a solid price first ,It would be like giving a price over the phone without even looking at the car...
When the car comes in send some pics it sounds like a nice project..
Heres some of what you run into sooner or later...
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Last edited by deadbodyman; 03-26-2012 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:04 AM
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SWEET cheers for the help.damn that porsche is like a girl i once knew nice on the outside ****************************.I call that a kinder surprise my friend.You dont know what youre getting into until you crack the egg.Ill let you know how the e-type goes as soon as i see the customer.

Last edited by dinger; 03-27-2012 at 10:39 AM. Reason: Profanity. Please see: general board guidelines.
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Old 03-27-2012, 12:43 PM
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I'm pretty much in the same boat as you with smaller jobs having to be prepped and painted the same day but I always try and give the primer at least an hour preferably 2 AFTER using infra red.The cooling is as important as the heating.
To my mind 10 minutes and that primer was still soft !
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Old 03-27-2012, 02:57 PM
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I haven't worked as a production shop for years. And I haven't changed my materials for quite a while. But, materials aside, I have some procedure suggestions.

One of the first rules is, the more thoroughly you do one step, the less time the next step will take. Within reason. Theoretically, if you can metal finish a dent repair, you can skip all the filling and surfacer steps, and go straight to paint. That's the general idea anyway.

When it comes to the last steps before 2k primer, I suggest being especially thorough. Polyester body filler hardens quicker than urethane. So, an extra skim coat and a careful shaping can cut way down on the amount of 2k urethane primer/surfacer needed, and the time it needs to cure.
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Old 03-27-2012, 03:26 PM
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Barry at SPI actually sells Urethane accelerator, you can use it with any 2K primer
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