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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2004, 08:28 AM
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PTL heads are for guy's that dont mind some cleanup work and to deal with a few issues, like buying a real all out race head...these heads are for racers...the price is right and when you work the bugs out of these heads you have a head thats cost effective and kicks ***** and takes names...

besides AFR cant really compete with PTL other than on a street basis PTL owns the track...look at thier "all out" race heads..compare the raised runner 23 degree head to AFR not to mention the 14 degree heads AFR cant Hold a candle to these guy's...its the street cry babies that giving them a bad name...

if your a guy who is a bolt on artist go with AFR leave the real heads for the real racers...2wld4u

yes Im sick of hearing about this....

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2004, 08:42 AM
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I don't call 100 sets shipped to 1 customer and the intake bolt holes off by .150" from 1 end to another a simple fix. Not to mention half of them did not have spark plug holes. When functional, it was a damn good piece, but to compare a 14 degree head to a 23 degree head is like comparing a Winston cup car to a Bomber.

Chris
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2004, 08:53 AM
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C, Do you have an online store? You are one of the few vendors I've heard of that actually checks merchandise when a problem arises. Firestone mentioned Revolutionary Performance, they are very knowledgeable as well and seem to actually care what the end user gets. They also reported heads being shipped in mismatched pairs and improperly machined. They did go on to say that the heads were awesome for the money, when you got a matched pair.

Larry
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2004, 09:19 AM
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Larry,
No I don't. I use to work for a large Performance Warehouse, but I now work for Stef's Performance/B&B Performance Sales. We mfg. and supply several performance companies with parts. I have developed a good reputation within the industry and have good contacts throughout. Coming from the sales/mfg. side, I was taught as a salesman you are a "Problem Solver". You provide a part or a service to "fix the customers problem". To many times the customer is sold what he does not need. That goes against my philosphy.

I can point you to some good customers of mine that are fair, do good work. I don't mind.

Chris
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2004, 01:36 PM
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I don't call 100 sets shipped to 1 customer and the intake bolt holes off by .150" from 1 end to another a simple fix. Not to mention half of them did not have spark plug holes. When functional, it was a damn good piece, but to compare a 14 degree head to a 23 degree head is like comparing a Winston cup car to a Bomber.

Chris

ok, since the door is open lets get the facts straight...comparing a as cast head to a full CNC head is like comparing a winston cup car to a bomber..PTL heads are as cast! AFR is not! and like I said before AFR did do some work for PTL did they not? so if you compare PTL to AFR's machine work you have to consider they may have came from the same source..Maybe for the reason you mentioned is why AFR isnt doing machine work for PTL any longer EH? I really dont care about the whole issue I know what I want and what ill use..

I wont stand by a let anyone say that what I have is junk and that AFR is sooo much better...thats not true...If PTL CNC'ed thier heads other than AS CAST! no doubt would they not only out flow AFR they would also own every race track in the country...AFR isnt going to let that happen now are they? Think before you speak...Im telling you the truth and if you cant handle that maybe you can squeeze some $$$$$ out of AFR to help you think...this is my honest opinion you have yours...I really dont like getting upset on these matters but this one is just total BS...2wld4u
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2004, 02:13 PM
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This is getting GOOD!
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2004, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
I don't call 100 sets shipped to 1 customer and the intake bolt holes off by .150" from 1 end to another a simple fix. Not to mention half of them did not have spark plug holes.
YIKESSS!!! I never heard of such a thing. That would definetely get your attention, HOW in the world to you forget to drill and tap the spark plug holes? You deal with them on a much larger level so I am sure you have more horror and hero stories about them than the average guy on the street (that would be me). I just haven't seen any of the horror stories, I have seen some that the push rod slots needed some work but, never saw a set that wasn't repairable.

In either case if you get a set that are functional, they are damn good heads. I guess it's buyer beware for now.

Royce
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2004, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by killerformula
Hmm, I think Jmark *****-canned a set. Do a search!



K
Ahhhh, yes, the ProTrudLine heads! I remember them well! and still have nightmares too!

We had one set and they were junk. Runners were off and the rockers did not line up and the pushrods hit in 4 places. While some say that the PTL heads can be made to work with some "tweeking", I do not think that "tweeking" should be necessary when spending good money on a set of heads that come from a company that "supposedly" has a good rep.

How would you feel if you bought a set of brand new GM Vortec heads and the parts guy said, "Hey dude, these will be great heads once the maching shop gets done fixing all the crap that GM screwed up!" I think you'd run like hell from that too! We did. We went with a set of World Torguer II's out of the box, bolted right on, and everything fit as it should.

I'm sure the PTL's can be made to work great, but I don't believe that having to spend another $300 in add'l machine work is justified when there are other companies that sell an "as cast" head that actually fits out of the box.

Mark

If you are interested, you can look at the pictures here.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2004, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jmark
I'm sure the PTL's can be made to work great, but I don't believe that having to spend another $300 in add'l machine work is justified when there are other companies that sell an "as cast" head that actually fits out of the box.

Mark

If you are interested, you can look at the pictures here.
And this is why I said I would use them as boat-anchors. Even if you got a FREE set of PTL heads, you'd be hundreds of dollars into getting them to even work, then you'd be a ***** load more into porting them to get the flow numbers out of them that they advertise. By the time that's all done you may as well have just bought a set of decent heads. If you see a set of these suckers laying on the side of the road, leave them there! (jk)

K
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 05-07-2004, 11:11 PM
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I suppose you guy's are right, why would you want a set of heads that flow above countless others and even have been compared to a full CNC ported head...unless every set of heads you have ever bought have been CNC ported the PTL heads look alot better than alot of the castings I have witnessed..and the people who have seen other "as cast" castings as I have would proboly agree...




when you get into a ride and you cant brethe because of the G's pulling on you and it pulls so hard on top end you kind start getting nervous because it wont quit pulling even @ 6200 in drive and it looks like the end of the 1/4 is 15 miles away the speedo is wraped around to who knows what, oh, never mind....

PTL has given me a rush to reflect on my nature...and I wanted more, so I bought another set, Im sure AFR can do for you what PTL did for me, isnt that what really counts? who cares what heads or any other part is on your ride if indeed it justify's its intent...

bad mouthing pro topline isnt the answer...if you have a point to prove take it to the track! One most notable charasteristic of Ed Curtis I really like, and thats what he always says too, prove your point at the track.. and I couldnt agree more...if you dont think PTL or AFR, or Brodix, or TFS, or Canfield, world products, Dart etc.. flow's this or that or wont make this or that I think its time to have a showdown at the track...no flow#'s no BS let the cars speak for themselves...all the top head makers build a test mule to duke it out, enough propaganda, show me the money, prove to me and thousands of others just how much better AFR is at the track than PTL, seriously, I want to know...

P>S by the way....I have PTL heads...any AFR headed street strip cars out there want a challenge?
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2004, 09:27 PM
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Thanks for all the responses. I don't doubt that these are good heads, however it is a real let down when you spent good money for brand new heads that need so much work. I didn't even think about a couple other issues, until after reading some of messages.

I had to have the machine shop deck the heads, grind one head so one of the pushrods could clear the head and also have an issue with the rockers not lining up. It sure looks like something is wrong when you pull the valve cover off and the rockers aren't straight.

I would expect some kind of quality control and everything I have seen with my set up Pro Lightnings make me wish I didn't buy them. I would try to take them back, however steam holes have been drilled for use in a 400 sbc. I am definately not going to donate them to any one to This might even be class action lawsuit material.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2004, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2wld4u




bad mouthing pro topline isnt the answer...if you have a point to prove take it to the track! One most notable charasteristic of Ed Curtis I really like, and thats what he always says too, prove your point at the track.. and I couldnt agree more...
P>S by the way....I have PTL heads...any AFR headed street strip cars out there want a challenge?
Well, If we had a trailer, I suppose we could have hauled my sons engine to the track so everyone could see how shi**y our heads were.

That aside, I'll bad mouth any product that is, in my opinion, sub quality or defective, when even the slightest amount of quality control would have stopped a piece of crap from making its way clear across the ocean to someones engine. We're not into "G" force rushes, we wanted a good, out of the box set of heads that would enhance my sons $6,000 engine. What we got was 2 big hunks of junk that PTL called heads.
I"m sure the CNC heads are wonderful, they better be for what they cost! And if we had bought a set of them and they need "tweeking" to get the pushrods to fit and the rockers to meet the stems properly and the runners to fit the manifold, i'd take those back and stick em up someones ***** too!

What is boils down to, is the industry has trained some of us well to accept sub standard parts and call it "custom tailoring"! I call it not caring enough to check your parts before shipping them off. Its mostly time verses money. If you can BS people into believing that all the "tweeking" is acceptable, you'll save money by not having to provide an accuratley machined final product.

I'd hate to see PTL make cranks! I can see the fine print now.
"some grinding, filing, and add'l. machine work may be necessary for this item to fit what we say it will because we don't really care if you have to finish the job the we didn't care enough to do right the first time."

Mark
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2004, 11:25 PM
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No joke Mark. I can't tell you how many times I've had to "modify" headers with a few precision whacks from a hammer just to get them in the car. Just like Windows, I accepted it and went on. Not anymore. If it won't work like it should, I take it back and try someone elses product. When the vendors stop buying because the parts aren't selling, the companies usually do somehting to correct the problem. If they want to remain in business.

Larry
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2004, 08:33 AM
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Originally posted by coldknock
No joke Mark. I can't tell you how many times I've had to "modify" headers with a few precision whacks from a hammer just to get them in the car. Just like Windows, I accepted it and went on. Not anymore. If it won't work like it should, I take it back and try someone elses product. When the vendors stop buying because the parts aren't selling, the companies usually do somehting to correct the problem. If they want to remain in business.

Larry

I never really thought about the products like this untill you said something...and I agree...If they make it to fit.....it should fit....absolutely....

Jmark,

I understand your point of view...but you have to understand mine as well, I feel for you and your son, I really do, but your machinest is proboly at fault as much as PTL, he ordered them right? you may have recieved the raised runner versions, requiring an ofset...I dont know....and let me take this oportunity and make a recomendation myself...

If your building a street/street ride stick with the true bolt on's

TFS makes and excellent head, so does Canfield, and the new Edelbrock heads are also great...Brodix is proboly the best engineered head out there...but if you want brodix heads to flow it costs you some $$$$$$$ but you end up with a head that CAN LAST for generations...Brodix has everything to freshen them up when the time comes..


did I ever mention my PTL 220CC heads have a 2.02x1.60 valve?

well, thats why Im using them..
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2004, 08:50 AM
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jmark,

What combination are you running with your 220's?
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