Hot Rod Forum banner

Pro Topline Heads

21K views 31 replies 15 participants last post by  teufelhunden22 
#1 ·
I have two sets of pro topline heads. My first set was the Pro Torquer's which seems to work well and fit nicely. No special parts needed. Recently I purchased a set of the 220 Lightnings. The set looked real nice, however one of the heads intake runnerrs are higher then the other heads. We finally found an intake manifold that would work with the heads, however it took a while. One of the heads was also drilled too deeply where the accessory bolt would go and started leaking soon after the head was installed. I currently have a bolt sticking out the front of my aluminum heads, doesn't look too pretty. The company is also in the process of going through chapter 11 and it doesn't sound very likely that they will have a buyer. With all these issues and no where to go for help, I would suggest going with another head. Perhaps AFR, that is what I would have gone with if I had known all the issues I would have with the Lightnings.
 
#2 · (Edited)
I have two sets as well, the 200cc iron and now the 220cc alum, mine look great, and aside from some minor casting flash here and there they are cast perfectly....

are you sure it isnt Pro Action thats having finacial difficulty? Pro Topline is a newer program...same people but I think Pro Action teamed up with these fellow's www.topline.com.ar

I also believe that AFR was doing the work for Pro Action untill pro actions sales were out doing AFR, so AFR went and started selling thier own heads...I suspect thats when pro action became PTL....

to me thats why its hard to find the correct flow #'s for PTL, with AFR as a adversary some tests might be a lil bias...2wld4u

this is from PTL site.....they are very dominate in the years listed...then? what happened? hmmm....maybe those guy's at AFR started getting a lil upset? anyways..this is just my .02....I hope you get your problems resolved...I just wanted you to know that saying AFR is better when they use to do work for PTL is well.....you know...2wld4u




EARLY ACHIEVERS With PROTOPLINE -
PROTOPLINE

CHAMPIONSHIP WINNERS: DRIVER CYLINDER HEAD

1998 SCCA USA TRANSAM CHAMPIONSHIP Paul Gentilozzi 140 Aluminum TA
1998 NZ TRANSAM CHAMPIONSHIP Shane Drake 140 Aluminum TA
2000 NZ TRANSAM CHAMPIONSHIP Ashley Stichbury 140 Aluminum TA
2000 WORLD SUPER STREET DRAG RACE Jimmy Blackmon 140 Aluminum Nitrous
2000 AUSTRALIAN SPORTS SEDAN Kerry Baily - 1st 140 Aluminum 254
2-Tony Ricardello 140 Aluminum 254
2000 SUPERBOAT WORLD CHAMPS-JET SPRINT Pete Briant 140 Aluminum 300
2001 SUPERBOAT WORLD CHAMPS-JET SPRINT Peter Caughy 140 Aluminum 300
1999 WORLD WHITE WATER RACING ASSOC. Val & Del Ramsdel 140 Aluminum 254
2000 WORLD WHITE WATER RACING ASSOC. B White 140 Aluminum 254
2000 GROUP A WORLD JET SPRINT Gary Tombs 140 Aluminum A/C
2001 GROUP A WORLD JET SPRINT Chris Munroe 140 Aluminum A/C
2001 NZ MODIFIED CHAMPIONSHIP Murray Gorge 230 Pro Lightning
2001 NZ NATIONAL STOCK CAR CHAMPIONSHIP Murray Hobbs 230 Pro Lightning

RECORD SETTERS
1999 USA NOSTALGIC SERIES Bill Wayne 140 Cast Iron 300
2000 NHRA NOSTALGIC DRAGS Wayne Ramay 140 Cast Iron 285
2001 NHRA NOSTALGIC DRAGS Todd Movius 140 Cast Iron 300
2000 BONNEVILLE WORLD RECORD AA GAS ROADSTER Dave Davieson 140 Cast Iron R/R

RACE WINNERS AND TOP PERFORMERS
2001 WORLD OF OUTLAWS - SPRINT CARS Donny Shatz 140 Aluminum 285
2001 DAYTONA SPEED WEEK Jackie Boggs 140 Aluminum 254
2000 USA EASY STREET 2000 - DRAG RACING Frank Mewshaw 140 Cast Iron R/R
2000 FASTEST CHEVROLET 2000 SCCA TRANS-AM Johnny Miller 140 Aluminum TA
2000 $10,000 RACE - ROSEDALE SPEEDWAY NSW Jamie McHugh 140 Aluminum 265
2000 NEW SOUTH WALES SPRINT CAR TITLE Jamie McHugh 140 Aluminum 265
2000 GRAND AMERICA MODIFIED - MAIN EVENT Todd Budlong 230 Pro Lightning
2000 SANTA MARIA RACEWAY -
DIRT LATE MODEL MAIN EVENT Steve Drake - 1st
Bob Crocker 2nd 140 Cast Iron R/R
140 Cast Iron R/R
2001 AUSTRALIAN NATIONAL LATE MODEL SERIES Bert vos Bergen 140 Aluminum 265 SDN
2000 AMERICAN RACING CAR ASSOCIATION SERIES Frank Kimmel - 2nd 140 Aluminum 265
2001 CANADA CUP GT CHALLENGE - WINS EVERY RACE Doug Lipps 140 Aluminum 265
2001 MISSOURI STATE TRUCK PULL CHAMPIONSHIP Joe Creason 140 Cast Iron 265
STREET RACE -

Date
Event


Class
Driver
Team
Engine Builder
ProAction Product
Time/Speed


















July 2003 NMCA Super Series Limited Street Frank Mewshaw Xtreme-RPM Motorsports 374 cid Xtreme 23oRunner Aluminum 8.29 @ 171.88 N/X Nitrous Express, Current mph record- Pittsburg.




2002
NMCA Super Series
E/Z Street
Bob Curran/
Nick_Scavo, PatMcGowean, EricVanderkum
359ci SB Chevy Fast_Times Motorworks
23 deg Raised Runner (cast iron)
8.411@167.95 mph-Season'sbest
Fast_Times Motorworks, AlstonRace Cars,Motive Motion, TSI of Addison Illlinois,MSD, Autometer, Straightline Mufflers

















12/02, 2003
Street Stock Nationals
Street_Stock -Super_Stock -Stock_Car
Trivitt Hegwood
Engine Machine Specialists Racing
Trivitt Hegwood - EMS
Iron 50cc Staight Plug
Qualified 3rd row outside
Sponsors & thanks...





















DRAG RACERS -
Date
Event


Class
Driver
Team
Engine Builder
ProAction Product
Time/
Speed


6/01/
2003
Summit Racing Series
Pro
Mark Selinger
Mark.Selinger
Mark Selinger
Aluminum
23 deg
64cc chambers
6.82@ 101.9mph 1/8-Mile
Track
(Sponsors:)

August 2324th 2003 ProFastest Street_Car Event_#4 Extreme Street Bob Curran Pat McGowean, Eric Vanberkum 359_SBC Fast-Times Motorworks 23 deg Raised Runner
(cast iron) 8.57@
157mph Nitrous_Express, TSI_of_Addison Illinois,Autometer, MSD,Alston_Race Cars,Fast-Times Motorworks

2002
NMCA Super Series
E/Z Street

Pat McGowean, Eric Vanderkum
359_SBC Fast- Times Motorworks
23 deg Raised Runner
(cast iron)
8.411@
167.95mph
Season's Best
+Straightline_Mufflers 2002_NMCA_Super
Series_Class_World Champion,5Wins,3
runnerups,2_Semi finals&MPH_record
setting_performance
at_Cecil_County Racetrack_May_02

2003
ST/SS/
GRUDGE
DRAG
MIKE
BUBBA
407 CHEVY
14-PSDR ProAction
5.24@134
1/8 MILE



July 19-20 2003
NMCA Hot Rod Power Festival
Drag Radial
Mike Fratena /
Xtreme RPM Motorsports
BBC 474/ Frank Mewshaw
ProThunder Aluminum Heads
9.01 / 156 mph



9/28
2003 LACR super series NHRA SuperGas andSocal ProGas Gary Mignacca Gary Mignacca 468BB Chevy 4BBL850, PG_Trans) 124 19000 320 10.20 @ 134.00 Continential Converters, Hot_Rod_Performance, VelliosMachine,Goodyear,
AldanShocks,IskyCams


9/14
2003 Outlaw
10.5 Race
Greg McNutt
Greg_McNutt, Joe_Blancato, David.Anderson
Turbo Charged 371 SBC
14d-265cc Runner Heads
4.863@ 153.8mph 1/8mile @3140lbs S&S_Racing-Read_More
Morton.Brothers.Racing
Mortons.Auto_Salvage,
Roberts_Body_Shop,
EastCoast_Performance
 
#3 ·
oh no! You started reading this board too late! There have been countless problems with pro-topline, probably the reason they're going out of business. Several people on this site have ****-canned their topline heads and gone with something else. The heads are probably good heads when the work right, but there are so many castings with flaws that its hard to get away from. Return the heads, get your money back and run like hell from pro-bottomline.

K:pain:
 
#4 ·
Those are good heads, I have heard of a few problems with "SOME" of them not all of them. I know people making big power with them.

The reason they are having financial difficulties has nothing to do with the product they produce. The problem is when they started, they were very successful and got too big for their britches. They bought up another company and that when the name changed. This is my understanding of what happened. They just got out of control with their spending and the business got in trouble (they tried to grow too fast).

I don't think I would buy a set of their heads right now (unless I could find an old set) but, if they get their act back together I would give them a shot.

If anyone out there doesn't want their Pro Action or Toplines I will pay for shipping and dispose of them for you. Killer let me know if any of your buddies that are "****-canning" them cause I would be happy to help them get rid of them. ;)


Royce
 
#9 ·
I'm not sure if heads that are cast with bolts running into the water-jackets, misaligned pushrod holes and intake runners that are out of alignment are worth anything. I mean, if you want a pair of 55-pount pieces of crap I can start eating some bran cereal right now and get started for you! lol

K:drool:
 
#10 ·
Killer, while some of the heads did have problems, the problem are fixable. That is my point. Would I want to buy a set of brand new heads and have to invest to get them ready to run, NO. Now if someone is willing to give them away I am more than willing to spend a few bucks to correct the problems and have a nice set of heads for sheap. You were talking about them like they were not usuable or like they were junk. This is just not the case, I have yet to hear of a pair that couldn't be fixed with some minor work. While agree that is not OK if I just paid $1200 for a set, but if I can pick up a set for $500 I wouldn't worry about a few minor details.

Royce
 
#11 ·
I know a guy who works at a motor building shop called Revolutionary Performance. He flow tested a set of the pro topline 200cc, 2.02 1.60 valve heads to see what they would really do out of the box. Below I have posted some sites, one is the pro topline advertised numbers, then the tested numbers by Revolutionary Performance, then the flow numbers for a set of AFR 195cc heads,which have been proven to be accurate. (just to compare).

Adam

http://www.protopline.com/223400000a.asp

http://www.prestage.com/Message+Boards/Default.aspx?Action=ShowPost&PostID=66185


http://www.airflowresearch.com/pages/195sbc_sh.htm
 
#12 ·
If you got a Pro head properly machined, you got a good head. . .they would make power. . .but as far as the bad ones and the quality control from batch to batch. . .it was terrible. I have customers with combined defects in the 100's of thousands of dollars.

Chris
 
#13 ·
Cstraub said:
If you got a Pro head properly machined, you got a good head. . .they would make power. . .but as far as the bad ones and the quality control from batch to batch. . .it was terrible. I have customers with combined defects in the 100's of thousands of dollars.

Chris
Yeah. Proof enough for me to make a boat anchor out of those pieces of ****.

K
 
#14 ·
Well I have a set of the Pro Topline 200cc Aluminums on my fresh 383 SBC that I built for my Camaro. The engines in the car but havent started it yet. This post almost has me ready to yank them off and sell them to buy some AFR's...lol. Hell I thought It was too good of a deal to be true. I will probably just cross my fingers and hope I got one of the good sets. The Intake ports did look poorly cast as they didnt seem to line up with the gasket very well. Its like that part of the head that divides the two intake ports where they meet the manifold was slightly off center on a couple of cylinders and their wasnt enough material there to correct it with a port match. I'll let you guys know how it goes once I fire the engine.
 
#15 ·
I have two sets of pro top line heads now, both for Fords 215cc runners, One of which im using on my stroker motor. I also have dealt with a few of their other heads, the only problem I have had was with there inflated Flow #'s. Both the chevy and ford heads I tested were quite different then what they claimed. Other then that a cool head at a good price, I had a dealer discount so was buying at a discount, wish I had bought more..

Ben
 
#16 ·
PTL heads are for guy's that dont mind some cleanup work and to deal with a few issues, like buying a real all out race head...these heads are for racers...the price is right and when you work the bugs out of these heads you have a head thats cost effective and kicks *** and takes names...

besides AFR cant really compete with PTL other than on a street basis PTL owns the track...look at thier "all out" race heads..compare the raised runner 23 degree head to AFR not to mention the 14 degree heads AFR cant Hold a candle to these guy's...its the street cry babies that giving them a bad name...

if your a guy who is a bolt on artist go with AFR leave the real heads for the real racers...2wld4u

yes Im sick of hearing about this....:boxing:
 
#17 ·
I don't call 100 sets shipped to 1 customer and the intake bolt holes off by .150" from 1 end to another a simple fix. Not to mention half of them did not have spark plug holes. When functional, it was a damn good piece, but to compare a 14 degree head to a 23 degree head is like comparing a Winston cup car to a Bomber.

Chris
 
#18 ·
C, Do you have an online store? You are one of the few vendors I've heard of that actually checks merchandise when a problem arises. Firestone mentioned Revolutionary Performance, they are very knowledgeable as well and seem to actually care what the end user gets. They also reported heads being shipped in mismatched pairs and improperly machined. They did go on to say that the heads were awesome for the money, when you got a matched pair.

Larry
 
#19 ·
Larry,
No I don't. I use to work for a large Performance Warehouse, but I now work for Stef's Performance/B&B Performance Sales. We mfg. and supply several performance companies with parts. I have developed a good reputation within the industry and have good contacts throughout. Coming from the sales/mfg. side, I was taught as a salesman you are a "Problem Solver". You provide a part or a service to "fix the customers problem". To many times the customer is sold what he does not need. That goes against my philosphy.

I can point you to some good customers of mine that are fair, do good work. I don't mind.

Chris
 
#20 ·
I don't call 100 sets shipped to 1 customer and the intake bolt holes off by .150" from 1 end to another a simple fix. Not to mention half of them did not have spark plug holes. When functional, it was a damn good piece, but to compare a 14 degree head to a 23 degree head is like comparing a Winston cup car to a Bomber.

Chris

ok, since the door is open lets get the facts straight...comparing a as cast head to a full CNC head is like comparing a winston cup car to a bomber..PTL heads are as cast! AFR is not! and like I said before AFR did do some work for PTL did they not? so if you compare PTL to AFR's machine work you have to consider they may have came from the same source..Maybe for the reason you mentioned is why AFR isnt doing machine work for PTL any longer EH? I really dont care about the whole issue I know what I want and what ill use..

I wont stand by a let anyone say that what I have is junk and that AFR is sooo much better...thats not true...If PTL CNC'ed thier heads other than AS CAST! no doubt would they not only out flow AFR they would also own every race track in the country...AFR isnt going to let that happen now are they? Think before you speak...Im telling you the truth and if you cant handle that maybe you can squeeze some $$$$$ out of AFR to help you think...this is my honest opinion you have yours...I really dont like getting upset on these matters but this one is just total BS...2wld4u
 
#22 ·
I don't call 100 sets shipped to 1 customer and the intake bolt holes off by .150" from 1 end to another a simple fix. Not to mention half of them did not have spark plug holes.
YIKESSS!!! I never heard of such a thing. That would definetely get your attention, HOW in the world to you forget to drill and tap the spark plug holes? You deal with them on a much larger level so I am sure you have more horror and hero stories about them than the average guy on the street (that would be me). I just haven't seen any of the horror stories, I have seen some that the push rod slots needed some work but, never saw a set that wasn't repairable.

In either case if you get a set that are functional, they are damn good heads. I guess it's buyer beware for now.

Royce
 
#23 ·
Jmark said:
I'm sure the PTL's can be made to work great, but I don't believe that having to spend another $300 in add'l machine work is justified when there are other companies that sell an "as cast" head that actually fits out of the box.

Mark

If you are interested, you can look at the pictures here.
And this is why I said I would use them as boat-anchors. Even if you got a FREE set of PTL heads, you'd be hundreds of dollars into getting them to even work, then you'd be a **** load more into porting them to get the flow numbers out of them that they advertise. By the time that's all done you may as well have just bought a set of decent heads. If you see a set of these suckers laying on the side of the road, leave them there! (jk)

K
 
#24 ·
I suppose you guy's are right, why would you want a set of heads that flow above countless others and even have been compared to a full CNC ported head...unless every set of heads you have ever bought have been CNC ported the PTL heads look alot better than alot of the castings I have witnessed..and the people who have seen other "as cast" castings as I have would proboly agree...




when you get into a ride and you cant brethe because of the G's pulling on you and it pulls so hard on top end you kind start getting nervous because it wont quit pulling even @ 6200 in drive and it looks like the end of the 1/4 is 15 miles away the speedo is wraped around to who knows what, oh, never mind....

PTL has given me a rush to reflect on my nature...and I wanted more, so I bought another set, Im sure AFR can do for you what PTL did for me, isnt that what really counts? who cares what heads or any other part is on your ride if indeed it justify's its intent...

bad mouthing pro topline isnt the answer...if you have a point to prove take it to the track! One most notable charasteristic of Ed Curtis I really like, and thats what he always says too, prove your point at the track.. and I couldnt agree more...if you dont think PTL or AFR, or Brodix, or TFS, or Canfield, world products, Dart etc.. flow's this or that or wont make this or that I think its time to have a showdown at the track...no flow#'s no BS let the cars speak for themselves...all the top head makers build a test mule to duke it out, enough propaganda, show me the money, prove to me and thousands of others just how much better AFR is at the track than PTL, seriously, I want to know...

P>S by the way....I have PTL heads...any AFR headed street strip cars out there want a challenge?
 
#25 ·
Thanks for all the responses. I don't doubt that these are good heads, however it is a real let down when you spent good money for brand new heads that need so much work. I didn't even think about a couple other issues, until after reading some of messages.

I had to have the machine shop deck the heads, grind one head so one of the pushrods could clear the head and also have an issue with the rockers not lining up. It sure looks like something is wrong when you pull the valve cover off and the rockers aren't straight.

I would expect some kind of quality control and everything I have seen with my set up Pro Lightnings make me wish I didn't buy them. I would try to take them back, however steam holes have been drilled for use in a 400 sbc. I am definately not going to donate them to any one to This might even be class action lawsuit material.
 
#26 ·
No joke Mark. I can't tell you how many times I've had to "modify" headers with a few precision whacks from a hammer just to get them in the car. Just like Windows, I accepted it and went on. Not anymore. If it won't work like it should, I take it back and try someone elses product. When the vendors stop buying because the parts aren't selling, the companies usually do somehting to correct the problem. If they want to remain in business.

Larry
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top