pro welders, I've got a challenge for you to firgure out - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Body - Exterior
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2013, 06:45 AM
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: General Motors transmissions Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: near Yellowstone park
Posts: 4,380
Wiki Edits: 27

Thanks: 12
Thanked 267 Times in 249 Posts
try weld talk

I have an old miller spool gun that I wanted to use on my lincoln SP 200 commercial size wire feed for welding aluminum faster than Tig. I signed up for the Weld Talk Forum. Some of the service tech's and welding engineers are on weld forums. You might get a better answer from a Pro there .The answer there was to just buy a $ 1200 power pack to run the spool gun. I wanted to find out if the lincoln would make it work. Spool guns are a lot cheaper now, I might look at a lincoln for mine and sell the old Miller.

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2013, 08:27 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,282
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,426
Thanked 1,220 Times in 1,076 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman View Post
I do have a stud welder but the main problem is you have to grind no less than a quarter size area for the gun to work also if a ding is in the middle of a hood the amount of pressure it takes to make an electrical connection makes the ding worst when it gets hot...
If we can get this to work all it would take is a tiny little hit with a grinder just enough for the wire to make a connection and a quick zap with the welder and you can pull the exact amount as needed by leaving enough paint so you can see when its right...Thats the one advantage a screw type dent puller has over a stud puller ,you can see what your doing by looking in the paint
Very good points, I HATE how that stud welder has so much pressure on the stud being pushed into the metal.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2013, 08:53 AM
put up or shut up
 

Last journal entry: saying goodbye to the beast
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Antelope, Ca
Posts: 2,121
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 603
Thanked 241 Times in 219 Posts
this is also why you don't use those cheapie HF stud guns. They require too much heat to get the studs to stick. A good gun does it with a light triggering. I never had problems with the pressure but heat on newer cars no doubt. Had hail damage on a Subaru hood recently "get away" from me. I can't say for sure the little shrinking that occured during welding the stud in did it OR it was just stretched from the hail damage but once I got it straight the shrinking begun and in the end it was tight but with a bigger skim coat than I would have wanted. "It got away from me"

Last edited by tech69; 01-04-2013 at 09:06 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2013, 09:46 AM
OneMoreTime's Avatar
Hotrodders.com moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Health and safety in the shop or garage
Last journal entry: Yard Dog pic
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Washington State
Age: 70
Posts: 7,431
Wiki Edits: 3

Thanks: 60
Thanked 163 Times in 152 Posts
Gee guys you can hold a washer on edge with a needle nose pliers and do a quick tack and hook your slide hammer to that and it works well..a number 10 or 12 washer is about right for that..

Sam
__________________
I have tried most all of it and now do what is known to work..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to OneMoreTime For This Useful Post:
cyclopsblown34 (01-05-2013)
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2013, 10:18 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,282
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,426
Thanked 1,220 Times in 1,076 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tech69 View Post
this is also why you don't use those cheapie HF stud guns. They require too much heat to get the studs to stick. A good gun does it with a light triggering. I never had problems with the pressure but heat on newer cars no doubt. Had hail damage on a Subaru hood recently "get away" from me. I can't say for sure the little shrinking that occured during welding the stud in did it OR it was just stretched from the hail damage but once I got it straight the shrinking begun and in the end it was tight but with a bigger skim coat than I would have wanted. "It got away from me"
Never used a HF stud gun but I can't stress enough a tip taught to me by a serious tool inventor that using the stud gun you don't need much heat. I understand may be describing this exact thing, the HF doesn't even have enough to do this. I am posting this for any lurkers who haven't seen it.

This video shows how little a tap on the trigger you should need.



Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2013, 10:37 AM
put up or shut up
 

Last journal entry: saying goodbye to the beast
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Antelope, Ca
Posts: 2,121
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 603
Thanked 241 Times in 219 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
Never used a HF stud gun but I can't stress enough a tip taught to me by a serious tool inventor that using the stud gun you don't need much heat. I understand may be describing this exact thing, the HF doesn't even have enough to do this. I am posting this for any lurkers who haven't seen it.

This video shows how little a tap on the trigger you should need.



Brian
I agree, and that's what I love about my bumble bee stud gun. At work we have a pretty good one but we lost the tip. Someone hasn't ordered a new one and for the last two months we have been using the cheap HF we have, and I'm not gonna bring in my good stud gun, no way! That's a shop duty just as it is to get sand paper-lol I totally agree with feathering and trying t go light as possible cause if you get some shrink where the stud is that's fine being you're pulling it and not hammering the trigger but it's the outer ring's resistance that well get you. not an issue with the good guns when using it right but with the harbor freight it's a nightmare no matter how you use it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2013, 11:42 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,282
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,426
Thanked 1,220 Times in 1,076 Posts
HF is the LAST resort as far as I am concerned.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2013, 05:54 PM
Old Fool's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: spokane,wa.
Posts: 1,347
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 8
Thanked 40 Times in 34 Posts
MIG welding is usually globular transfer. ( autobody work would not use spray transfer)
The end of the wire melts into a little ball and drops to the weld zone.
In most usages there is no contact between the wire and the base metal for more than a few milliseconds at a time as it creates its short circuit.
I would think you will be lucky if you can get consistent "sticks".
Going to be an interesting experiment. Keep us posted

Edit: most MIG machines today use a short circuit globular transfer method, which is not true globular transfer. It is in those milliseconds that the wire contacts the base metal and creates the short circuit which increases the heat and forms that nice little ball (glob) of metal to transfer.


That is a basic idea , there are many text books explaining it far more involved.

Last edited by Old Fool; 01-04-2013 at 06:16 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to Old Fool For This Useful Post:
MARTINSR (01-04-2013)
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 01-04-2013, 06:05 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,282
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,426
Thanked 1,220 Times in 1,076 Posts
Ahhhhh

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2013, 05:34 AM
deadbodyman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Stripping paint Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: augusta,ga.
Age: 54
Posts: 6,282
Wiki Edits: 11

Thanks: 28
Thanked 490 Times in 416 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Fool View Post
MIG welding is usually globular transfer. ( autobody work would not use spray transfer)
The end of the wire melts into a little ball and drops to the weld zone.
In most usages there is no contact between the wire and the base metal for more than a few milliseconds at a time as it creates its short circuit.
I would think you will be lucky if you can get consistent "sticks".
Going to be an interesting experiment. Keep us posted

Edit: most MIG machines today use a short circuit globular transfer method, which is not true globular transfer. It is in those milliseconds that the wire contacts the base metal and creates the short circuit which increases the heat and forms that nice little ball (glob) of metal to transfer.


That is a basic idea , there are many text books explaining it far more involved.
You may have something there OF,yesterday I played around with disconnecting the ground while welding and it was deffinetly all about the timing,I was averaging about two out of ten trys by releasing the trigger and the ground at exactly the same time ..when I had someone else remove the ground we culdnt get it to work at all ..It is possible though.The few that stuck and feed the wire out were stuck very well and I couldnt pull them off with plyers, theres going to be more to it than just a switch at the ground...
I know its possible and heres why (bare with me)...back in 76-78 I was working at a friends shop when a salesman came in to demonstrate a new welder called a mig,at that time no shops had one and I never saw anything like it, anyway he demonstrated it ,how to weld and showed all us how ez it was to weld with,we were pretty impressed with it to say the least,,,as an encore he showed us a feature that floored us ,we had a chevy truck door laying there with a 4" rust hole where the bolt s for those big mirrors go, he ground around the hole to get clean metal and did something he called speggettii weld ,the wire welded itself to one side of the hole then the wire feed out until it reached the other side and when it made contact it welded itself to the other side,he kept repeting this until the hole had wire covering it like spokes on a wheel then he hit a button and all the spokes glowed red hot welding themselves to each other ,the hole was welded up...I never forgot that.. my buddy did buy that welder and we were one of the first shops around to have a mig welder.as it turned out it wasnt a very good way to patch a hole so we never used the feature and I never saw it again on any other machine...
So it is possible,I'm just not smart enough to figure it out myself......Wheres old red??? I'll bet he can shed some light on this
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2013, 09:28 AM
put up or shut up
 

Last journal entry: saying goodbye to the beast
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Antelope, Ca
Posts: 2,121
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 603
Thanked 241 Times in 219 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
HF is the LAST resort as far as I am concerned.

Brian
not really. I gotta ask, how often do you use your tools? I use mine everyday, and for the ones I use everyday I like to get good tools. For ones that I don't, Harbor Freight is fine. Where would I be without that awesome HF scriber pen? Where would I be without that HF spring loaded punch? Where would I have been at my first job without all those HF tools I eventually replaced with better brands later? Where would I be without those blue Harbor Freight gloves that last a lot longer than all the fancy Shmancy gloves on the market. I still have 4 brand new pairs of them cause they're so good. Man, I'm ok with Harbor Freight and I learned what's a go and what's not by trial and error. No other tool brand has gotten me out of so many binds....and I don't owe any salesmen coming to the shop collecting. With that said, most of my tools aren't Harbor Freight, but once were.

Anyhow, HF stud gun=poo poo.

Sorry for the highjack, back to the subject at hand
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2013, 10:14 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,282
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,426
Thanked 1,220 Times in 1,076 Posts
When I was using my tools everyday, they were the same as today 95% top of the line stuff. This includes my home repair tools and gardening tools. I personally hate using anything that isn't top of the line. This includes in the kitchen, my guitar and so on. I pick and choose the HF type stuff very carefully. My HF stapler that I put my top on my Convertible with, HECK YES that sucker did the job and the $17 I paid for it was killer! But again, kinda like my using all the same brand paint, it is what I started doing. Back 35 years ago at my second job a Snap On man came by and I bought my 1/4 socket set that I still have and never stopped. But back then, there was no Harbor Freight, there was Sears and Monkey Wards, that was about it for tools, that and a few at the parts store. Things are quite different now so maybe I would do totally different today I don't know.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to MARTINSR For This Useful Post:
tech69 (01-05-2013)
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2013, 10:19 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,282
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,426
Thanked 1,220 Times in 1,076 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadbodyman View Post
You may have something there OF,yesterday I played around with disconnecting the ground while welding and it was deffinetly all about the timing,I was averaging about two out of ten trys by releasing the trigger and the ground at exactly the same time ..when I had someone else remove the ground we culdnt get it to work at all ..It is possible though.The few that stuck and feed the wire out were stuck very well and I couldnt pull them off with plyers, theres going to be more to it than just a switch at the ground...
I know its possible and heres why (bare with me)...back in 76-78 I was working at a friends shop when a salesman came in to demonstrate a new welder called a mig,at that time no shops had one and I never saw anything like it, anyway he demonstrated it ,how to weld and showed all us how ez it was to weld with,we were pretty impressed with it to say the least,,,as an encore he showed us a feature that floored us ,we had a chevy truck door laying there with a 4" rust hole where the bolt s for those big mirrors go, he ground around the hole to get clean metal and did something he called speggettii weld ,the wire welded itself to one side of the hole then the wire feed out until it reached the other side and when it made contact it welded itself to the other side,he kept repeting this until the hole had wire covering it like spokes on a wheel then he hit a button and all the spokes glowed red hot welding themselves to each other ,the hole was welded up...I never forgot that.. my buddy did buy that welder and we were one of the first shops around to have a mig welder.as it turned out it wasnt a very good way to patch a hole so we never used the feature and I never saw it again on any other machine...
So it is possible,I'm just not smart enough to figure it out myself......Wheres old red??? I'll bet he can shed some light on this
How about a momentary switch normally on, so when you touch your foot to it, the ground is broken? It would be way easier for you to get into a rhythm with your foot and finger to hit at the perfect time to make it stick?

I remember that first time seeing a MIG too, we forget what an amazing tool it is! But I have to tell you, I am dying to pull out my torch (haven't fired it in years) when I do my truck. You talk about memories.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2013, 03:02 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Northeast PA
Posts: 205
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts
Back to the original question, how about a Ford type starter solenoid, controlled by a normally open foot switch, or even a push button. Power it from a battery charger or a car battery, and connect the solenoid in the ground lead circuit. No modifications to the welder, and easy to hook up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2013, 03:46 PM
deadbodyman's Avatar
Registered User
 
Last wiki edit: Stripping paint Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: augusta,ga.
Age: 54
Posts: 6,282
Wiki Edits: 11

Thanks: 28
Thanked 490 Times in 416 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy48 View Post
Back to the original question, how about a Ford type starter solenoid, controlled by a normally open foot switch, or even a push button. Power it from a battery charger or a car battery, and connect the solenoid in the ground lead circuit. No modifications to the welder, and easy to hook up.
I think I'll try that and see what happens...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Body - Exterior posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anyone up for a Challenge? ethn_bert General Rodding Tech 34 06-27-2010 02:29 PM
i hate having to spoon feed car guys that cant firgure out anything themselves ... lowROLLERchevy Hotrodders' Lounge 17 09-26-2007 03:24 PM
Redneck Challenge wts Hotrodders' Lounge 0 04-01-2005 12:48 PM
Heres a little challenge Bluepen Engine 5 10-09-2003 05:22 PM
Heres a challenge jeff germano Engine 5 03-18-2003 03:24 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.