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  #151 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2013, 11:39 AM
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hi guys

I slackened off the idle pulley and pushed the belt back slightly and then did it back up with more flex. seems fine now . what is the correct slack on the longest free length ? or isn't there ?

went out on Sunday for a drive. had a few issues.

fuel got starved after a while.

cause = either copper fuel line to close to exhaust and get vapour lock ? ( will re-route any-how ) or
holley pump it at the front of the motor and when going up hill the pump cant pull it up ? problem is there isn't much room at the back to mount the holley pump up right .

would it be a issue when going up hills ? surely it can drag it up to its self ?

car ran well . chase knight said to change the oil after 1 and 1/2 hr of varied driving. I did 40 miles. so think I will change it ? . we haven't got your roads over here. longest straight in my area is 15 miles . but have lots of hills and straights so think I have given it some varied conditions . also went down a lot of hills letting the engine brake on its self down. heard its good to bed in the rings when not using much fuel in this way .

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  #152 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2013, 01:31 PM
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Be careful if running lean - you will be building that engine again. The pump should be mounted close to the tank, at or below the fuel level. It is a pusher pump, not designed for pulling. And yes, keep your fuel lines away from exhaust. I have about 1 1/2 inches of play on the 'long side' of the belt (total deflection) when cold. When the aluminum warms up, it expands so the belt will tighten.
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  #153 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2013, 02:25 PM
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hi 33willys77

thanks for the comment. seems I need to slacken it off even more then. I must admit when hot it is tight but I was worrying as currently when cold the belt it kind of loose on the top pulley i.e. I can push it back and forward slightly. but its not overly loose.

so ---- when hot how should it feel ?? tight tight ? or able to move abit ? that's probably a better way of resolving it as our longest lengths will probably vary and aluminium expansion between mine and yours also.

totally agree on the pump.

will move it back and make a bracket some how

then im off to the dyno . its running rich at present on 28d initial and all in at around 2800 @36 d

safe numbers and it isn't making any noise and starts fine hot or cold not det noise . using 99 octane here . plugs read slightly sooty than light brown but not black and carboned up.

I haven't been going mad. just wanted to shake it down a bit before going on the dyno. new roller cam is certainly nicer then flat tappet. seems to pick up very nicely

engine rebuild was my fault for building it first and letting it sit. kicking myself really but lesson learnt. flat tapped hyd lifters didn't bed in properly so sent the horrible oil mix grind paste all over the engine. yuk
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  #154 (permalink)  
Old 10-07-2013, 10:00 PM
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You been VERY patient throughout this Build my friend so listen to what they're saying and correct a few things BEFORE strapping it down.

*As said the pump "MUST" be gravity fed from the tank, THAT IS A MUST

*As for it starving for fuel after you drove it, that in itself has to be corrected before you strap down. What Fuel Pump are you running ??? I had that problem once when I used too much pump and it went into thermal overload when hot (on a different SC vehicle I had).

*As for Boost you have to remember with the Big Blowers you dont need insane boost to make insane power so I agree to Dyno it with 5 or 6.

You have to remember that the more boost you run the more octane you need. Have you done the math on yours and figured out the final compression ratio ??? My 871 is -5.5 underdriven and I'm only running 7-8 lbs of Boost and it's the equivalent of 13.1 compression ( I started with a 8.75 motor). I have The Pulley Drive Ratio Chart, The Drive & Boost Chart, The Final Compression Chart, and the Upper & Lower Pulley Charts, but it's all for the 871 so it wouldn't do you any good unfortunately.

As for the belt here you go straight from The Blower Shop and exactly how I have mine for 2 years now

The blower belt adjustment should be done with the motor cold, and have 3/4" deflection in or out on the long side of the belt. This should give you 1 1/2" total deflection. Once the motor is warm this will decrease to roughly 1/4" deflection in or out, or a total deflection of 1/2". Over tightening the belt can cause severe damage to the blower and/or crankshaft.

Ps
Here's a general final compression chart to give you an idea of how much the compression will rise with different boost levels
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  #155 (permalink)  
Old 10-08-2013, 02:04 PM
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hi all.

totally agree with your points.

the belt is sorted now. drove it on sunday for 40 m and didn't move. but I will double check the cold measurement . thanks rob for that info.

I have never had any fuelling issues before re pump and pressure . but that wasn't really driving it around like I did sunday. the problem I had was when I was going up a hill and I noticed a power loss. I wasn't driving fast. low gear and around 35-40 mph. low revs. so I pulled over. and checked fuel pressure and it was gone. a friend came to me. we put fuel in the top of the breathers so the float bowls where full and got the car started and turned it around to face down the hill and then I got fuel pressure. so holley fuel pump will be put in the back as you described this weekend. and I will move the fuel line well away from the exhaust . just in case of vapour lock

as you can see from the pics I posted I have done lots of additional machining.

o ringed manifold.
pop off valve to manifold.

and some other bits do clean it up.

the heads where checked and angle to manifold was checked and it was all spot on . pulleys are in line .

I have given the car a few harder throttle pulls for say 5-7 secs then have turned off the ign and coasted to a stop. plugs don't read black or lean. just a bit blacker than perfect. so its running slightly rich on the secondary's. idle again is slightly black . primarys the same .

on cruising I have 14 hg vacuum . I have a 9.5 power valve in the carbs.

the ign is bang on tdc . so I know the ecu I delivering what I put into the ign table . being 28d initial and all in around 2800 at 36 d

it starts exactly as you suggested f bird. from cold 2 pumps and it starts first time. from hot no pumps and starts on around the 3 revolution . have fitted brand new plugs

spoke with dyno guys today and am taking it to them in two weeks time . 22nd October .

his son runs a turbo car with 30 psi boost and has the same software. I am not suggesting its the same engine or same set up. just that he has experience with forced induction .

when I did a few wot runs I never saw the boost go above 6 psi with my pulley combo . I have 45 bottom and 51 top which shows underdriven 0.88.

should show around 10 - 11 psi which I agree is to much to dyno with but. when I spoke to a few holley and bds tech guys they all ask which manifold. as its not a specific one and its one I have designed and modified they where unable to give figures and suggested the psi rating would be less as their manifolds are higher with probably better flow rates and give more psi. as I said I have only seen 6 psi max on a wot run. I will keep my eye on it and make sure it doesn't exceed 6-7 psi . when cruising its not showing any boost . I can get hold of 99 octane and have been using it. haven't heard any knocking det noise or anything. just runs nice to be honest. but it is hot fans coming on and off all the time. but its not over heating. coolant stays at the same level. oil clear with no contamination .

I have changed my crank sensor for a more strong one which has done the trick aswell.

oh rob - when we originally built the engine my comp ratio was 7.48 - 1 . pistons 4"+ 30 thou , I have the edlebroch victor junior heads and beliece they are the 60cc heads . I have the felpro mls head gaskets. .

cheers for the comments . keep them coming.

am going to change the oil as per chase knights recommendation. will keep it and examine

Last edited by mustang 671; 10-08-2013 at 02:10 PM.
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  #156 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2013, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mustang 671 View Post
oh rob - when we originally built the engine my comp ratio was 7.48 - 1 .
I'm jealous and wish I had a little less compression, mine runs fine on 93 but I run it on C12 24/7 for the added protection and that gets expensive

Good to hear this was an isolated fuel incident and it sounds like you got all the right stuff so hopefully once you put them where they belong all will be well. What Two Holly Pumps are you running and do you have a pump controller ???
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  #157 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2013, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProStreetRob View Post
I'm jealous and wish I had a little less compression, mine runs fine on 93 but I run it on C12 24/7 for the added protection and that gets expensive

Good to hear this was an isolated fuel incident and it sounds like you got all the right stuff so hopefully once you put them where they belong all will be well. What Two Holly Pumps are you running and do you have a pump controller ???
hi rob.

have moved the fuel pump to the rear , was at pig to house but managed to get it up out the way but level ish with the outlet at the bottom of the fuel tank. I wont be running it dry so think its in a good place.

I have 1x 125 type black holley electric fuel pump. and have a 3/8 fuel line going into a holley fuel pressure regulator set at 6psi .

will be carrying out the last bits ready for the dyno on Tuesday next week. look forward to having some figures , now I have driven it a few times im going to double check my torque settings. bolts etc, just to make sure the heat has made them looser .

any tips on that or what I should look for before going to the dyno ? should I do a oil change now or after dyno ? its had about 40m use so far .
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  #158 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2013, 03:09 PM
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video of a run in the car
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  #159 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2013, 06:22 AM
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You need some Cheese for that Whine
Car Sounds friggin awesome and very healthy when you gave it a little stab
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  #160 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2013, 01:52 PM
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thanks rob. its nice to hear a compliment after such a long stint with this build. will post some dyno results - hoping all goes well. next Tuesday
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  #161 (permalink)  
Old 11-01-2013, 02:23 PM
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hi all.

finally got to the dyno last Tuesday for a initial set up . very strange though. seems my engine is flowing too well ?? with my pulley combo of bottom pulley 45 top pulley 51 it show's a underdriven value of 0.88 on holley chart which should be around 10-11 psi. however when on the dyno we crept up and it only produced 6.98 psi . at 6000 rpm first power run was 270 ish bhp , ignition changes and re jetting we got to 328 bhp . couldn't get anymore even with jetting up. just mader mix go higher but no more power. told the guys at the dyno what comp ratio I had with 7.48 - 1 and they said with mechanical loss I am only probably getting somewhere around 10.1 -1 , so they have said I need to get a smaller top pulley . or may be 2 . one to give me say 10 psi and another to say 14 psi so I can get it right in the same dyno session

any thoughts ? was very shocked that it only showed 6.98 psi with this combo , they said as I have -kb dished pistons. 30 thou over , mls gaskets and edelbrock victor jnr heads and large headers and exhaust pipes. and this new roller cam with higher lifts, it isn't even starting to produce power.

below is a video of a full throttle power run. torque at 378 and bhp at 328 and at flywheel was calculated as 392 bhp .



and another longer run to map ignition

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  #162 (permalink)  
Old 11-02-2013, 04:46 AM
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Ya what he said

My Chart shows 50 Upper 45 Lower = -9.0 Underdriven
And 52 Upper 45 Lower = -13.5 Underdriven
So 51 Upper 45 Lower would be -11 Underdriven

And I also agree the power seems low, do you know if it was a Dynojet or Mustang Dyno ??? and were the numbers SAE, Net, or Uncorrected ???
Those #'s could be off by as much as 15% and as also said the 1320 dont lie, MPH will tell EVERYTHING.

AMOF I'm leaving right this sec to go out of State and take my 351W down the 1320 for the last time this season, (hoping for a 10.5 this time out)
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Old 11-02-2013, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
When calibrated correctly chassis dynos give very modest power numbers.
There are many factors.
You should have removed the engine and dynoed it on a real engine dyno.

the blower drive ratio is 11%under. If you are sure of the carb jetting
you can change it to 11% over by reversing the top and bottom pulleys.
Reduce the timing and sneek back up on it once verifying the tune
and knock tolerance.
The exhaust many be killing it.
Verify dyno calibration and setup. And weather correction factor etc.

Even at 7psi and 11% under drive I would expect more horsepower from it.
The ignition system is very suspect.
Tire traction.. A transmission issue.
hi firebird

wish I could change the pulleys around but I cant move the bottom one. its been made to fit over the harmonic balancer , so am thinking of ordering the same size as the bottom one and running it 1 to 1 . seems the holley/weiand charts are very out for my engine, I understand they do say its only a guide. but its way out. meant to be 11psi on their charts but not even seeing 7psi at 6000 rpm,

on the ignition I cant see any problems, new plugs , double checked with a timing light. I was at the dyno for 6 hrs with them, carbs off 4 times, re jetting, changed the vac sec diaphragm's. once it made max power it didn't move even when it was jetted richer , secondary's worked fine, pvs coming in nicely

they sprayed some compound on the tires to make it grip, I do have a auto so am sure im loosing bhp through trans, but I checked it before they started and it was full of atf.

I have racked as most brains as I can and all point towards more boost.

points noted and will double and triple check plugs ,auto fluid. I have took my carbs off AGAIN and am stripping them down tomorrow just to double check there is not debris or obstructions.
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  #164 (permalink)  
Old 11-02-2013, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by F-BIRD'88 View Post
Vacuum secondary throttles opening?
yes , I watched them open , was sticky before so we changed both diaphrams. check ball has been removed, I boost ref the primary metering blocks so the pv's see manifold vacuum as we discussed a while ago. didn't do the work on the carb base. did it using the take off tubes already on the primary metering blocks and opened the channel to the pv's
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  #165 (permalink)  
Old 11-02-2013, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProStreetRob View Post
Ya what he said

My Chart shows 50 Upper 45 Lower = -9.0 Underdriven
And 52 Upper 45 Lower = -13.5 Underdriven
So 51 Upper 45 Lower would be -11 Underdriven

And I also agree the power seems low, do you know if it was a Dynojet or Mustang Dyno ??? and were the numbers SAE, Net, or Uncorrected ???
Those #'s could be off by as much as 15% and as also said the 1320 dont lie, MPH will tell EVERYTHING.

AMOF I'm leaving right this sec to go out of State and take my 351W down the 1320 for the last time this season, (hoping for a 10.5 this time out)



how did you get on ??

I agree its 11% underdriven . what's your thoughts on going 1 to 1 ?

haven't a clue on dyno or sae numbers etc. suppose I thought its their job to do all of that ? give me some pointers to ask them ?? the dyno works the opposite to a alternator and uses electric current to operate . does that help ?

they did say that you "yanks " lol . do inflate dyno numbers ?? ie the bhp over there is different to here ? I know that seems mad and I don't think they mean its a different value . for example, they had some dick head who had a corvette and he raved that it was a 500 bhp car. the most the dyno saw was 375 . now that could of been 500 bhp at the fly wheel ?

think they have just had a few big v8s go in there saying this and that and when it comes down to it the power isn't there.

they like the idea of my water inj. said to get it as good as it can then slightly back off and use water inj to add some intercool charge.

have heard that methanol rots alu ? failing me getting a refrigeration coil put into the tank what other liquid can I use with water to provide intercooled effect ? I read somewhere on here windscreen wiper cleaning liquid -screen wash ???? really ??


what boost you run with blown engine ? what comp ratio ?
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