Hot Rod Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

Profiler crap valve seat

13K views 68 replies 19 participants last post by  engineczar 
#1 ·
Got in a "new" set of heads for an engine build for a friend....sbc 350 profiler 195's. I only pulled 2 valves out of each head, this one was the worse but there was chatter marks on every seat... my machine shop guy said the guides were too tight too but I didn't really feel what he was talking about, I could feel very very minor side to side clearance that felt normal to me, but who am I to question him.......the valve seats speak for themselves.....you can catch a edge of your fingernail on them....is this normal from profiler? I thought they were a decent head? do they save the crap heads for people that get the heads pre-assembled assuming they aren't going to take them apart and look at them? either way -beware....
 

Attachments

See less See more
1
#2 ·
I have had 2 sets now, other then fairly normal pushrod clearance issue with one, they were both very nicely machined, one set came apart for a spring upgrade and general look over this spring and looked new with no issues. That suprsies me that your having an issue, that being said they are still set up and checked by a human so errors can happen, from AFR, Brodix, Dart etc....there have and always will be errors made. Its how the company handles those errors that makes the difference.
 
#3 ·
My buddy who purchased the heads is going to contact them tomorrow...I understand that it happens, hopefully they will make it right, somewhat quickly too, I was just getting excited we had enough parts to go to the next step finally....this thing is taking up half of my shop and winter is coming lol
 
#4 ·
That's the one gripe I had with them, they are a tiny operation and focused on BBC stuff so its sometimes difficult to reach them or get a quick anwer. You take the good with the bad, the majority of their product is of excellent quality and performance wise rivals some of the best on the market for a much lower price tag, but..... they lack the man power or the funding that the other guys have at their disposal.
Good luck and Ihope they make it right.
 
This post has been deleted
#6 ·
You think I can lap out the ridges? I mean I cant say I didn't think about it that's why I dropped by the machine shop for a second opinion on that....but you can feel the chatter marks like they were cut with a dull tool or something...maybe they would polish up and be fine but for 1200.00 is it worth the risk? if I bought the heads assembled then why should I be the one to lap the valves in the first place? they might as well send me the heads apart so I can lap them and assemble them myself....I do wish they could be lapped but idk..... id try it as long as they would take them back if it wouldn't come out, im not trying without talking to the company first...its like running your fingernail down the edge of a quarter...just not quite as bad as that
 
This post has been deleted
#15 ·
Post some more pics of the heads. Any other issues.
Whats your overall opinion/impression?
Well I was going to have the machine shop check the springs but didn't get that far, the casting seams ok, you can see a fair amount of grinding in the runners but I kind of expected that to clean up the casting, the rest of the head machine work seemed to look like nice quality.....

my buddy is going to call them later since he's the one who bought them, see how they want us to proceed.

my local machine shop is very good to me and do very high quality work imo, some of the other auto part store "machine shops" are way to high priced and the work isn't any better than the guy I go to....I think he may give me a break on stuff though because the dealership I work for takes everything to him because of my recommendation to stop using the poor quality high priced auto part store machine shop, we have been doing business for 10 years without a problem
 
#10 ·
That chatter job will not "mate" for a long time.

Funny thing, there is rarely an out-of-the-box head that I can't find problems with. Most of them need at least a thorough cleaning, many times the valve job is problematic. Also, chamber sizes can be off from the spec., and a percentage are warped. I recently had a set of AFR BBC heads in the shop, brand new. One of the spring seats was installed upside-down, making the spring installed height .100" too short.

If you don't check the heads thoroughly, you don't know what you are missing.

Spinn, you need to find a new shop.
 
#18 ·
This is something that can happen when using a seat cutter (mill) rather than a hard seat grinder. The cutter tool can chatter for a list of reasons if you're not careful with your set up. This is not to say that one is better than other with either method the Devil's in the unique details that you must pay attention to for a quality job.

Post cutting lapping is always a good idea, especially with a cut seat.

Bogie
 
#20 ·
So this is what $1200 buys you? That's a damn shame.
That was my point exactly behind this thread, also the assembled heads should be inspected and not trusted as good....

maybe they would "run-in" after being lapped (I don't think lapping will remove it all just make it slightly better) but that's not a risk i'm willing to take since there's $4000.00 more worth of goodies underneath them.

I will post back once I hear from them, I have always heard good things, I assume that there customer service will be too
 
#21 ·
I'm not gonna beat on profiler for the tight guides in my heads because it was just a matter of opinion. He said when he does them he likes to see them a little looser than what they sent.it doesn't matter what size shop you run occasionally a dud will slip out. You could have spent $1600-2000 on Dart or AFR's and had the same issue, hopefully they will stand behind their product and make it right.
 
#24 ·
There are quite a few people who have cleaned them up and used them with little issue. A couple sets are in service for thousands of miles now, driven often, and these were the $5-600 a pair complete heads.

Of the few sets I have seen, there guides were fine, and the exhaust valves did not leak (definitely not like that video) on any of them.
 
#26 ·
Sometimes I wonder when a problem like this shows up weren't previously sold to someone who though they'd make an "improvement" then butchered them in the process. They then reassembled the parts, heads in this case, and sent them back to the dealer who didn't inspect them just restocked 'em. Then the next guy comes along and these gems get pulled off the shelf and shipped.

I say this 'cause every now and then you get parts that are so cobbled that you have to wonder if anybody's doing and quality checks. Especially when this comes from a high end dealer you expect a high level of quality control afterall many of these use a lot of advertising space telling you that QC and more QC is what they do. Then you get the parts open the box and they're junk to be sent back.

Bogie
 
#29 · (Edited)
The stone is not a lap. It is a much finer cut finish than a profile cutter. I use a stone final cut on all my jobs. The reason,, concrntricity.. better, polished seat. The profile blade is great for a time saving major cut.. But is a fly cutter, with the problems associated with single blade cutters.

One being the chatter cut the OP discovered. Tearing of seat material can happen if the cutter condition isn't good. Out of round and concentricity of seat. Incorrect cutter speed

A good shop can correct the OPs bad seat in a few seconds with three stones.. I've done it many times.. I also do not lap, unless the customer demands .. Yes I have a few old skool guys that demand it. One is a local GM dealer that even gets pictures of seats and lapped valve..As mentioned above, it is only for cold seat location..

"I don't have to worry about that gritty goo." I hate that stuff. I have to steam clean my bench and quarantine the shop rags to make sure the grit stays gone..

Magic marker/Marks a lot are so much cleaner than Dykem
 
#30 ·
Well, my friend called profiler yesterday and he sent them a pic via email and was told they would call him right back, he did not get a response back so he called on his afternoon break, was told that the guy he was working with left for the day but would have him call first thing in the morning......wouldn't you know my friend just got a call from a very appologetic person who said that they are overnighting a set of shipping labels and sending a new set of heads....so I guess so far the service is as much as one could except from any reputable company, will post back when all is finalized with results
 
#31 · (Edited)
.
. That's not the valve seat that's rough, that's just the head metal around the valve seat... it was cut away and the valve seat pressed into it... all heads arrive like that... unless you pay extra to have them CNC'd, ported, polished, reliefed, radiiused, or something... I always smooth that razor sharp edge off whether it's ragged or not... and smooth all other sharp edges in combustion chamber and on pistons... that prevents pinging from thin edges glowing red hot... and dieseling when shutting the engine off... allows for higher compression ratios, which I love... a good engine builder takes pride in taking care of those little details... that rebuilders don't do...

. The valve seat is stellite (exotic 'star' metal) or some other incredibly hard material... I just lap the new valves a little with fine compound to make absolutely sure they seal, otherwise the seats can burn through from a tiny leak... and it let's me know if the head seats are all truly concentric with the valve faces/seats... also, I backcut the valves while I have them out for better low lift flow...
.
 
#32 ·
in not concerned with the rough port or rough edges around the seat, I was going to fix the rough edges in the combustion chamber but the actual seat IS like the edge of a quarter......the pic doesn't show the feel, the area of concern is the chatter/tool marks on the seat itself, if I could see them and not feel them I would lap them but you can fell them easily....they are bad trust me
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top