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-   -   PROMAXX freedom series (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/promaxx-freedom-series-233097.html)

NovaLou 05-21-2013 08:46 AM

PROMAXX freedom series
 
What's a good cam and piston set up for the PROMAXX freedom 64cc aluminum heads? Looking to build a street car with 350-400 HP. Oh yeah, and what carb?

AutoGear 05-21-2013 12:40 PM

who/where do this 'promaxx' heads come from?
do you have a chevy, ford, dodge?
how many cubic inches?
whats its intended purpose?

vinniekq2 05-21-2013 02:01 PM

post head flow numbers

NovaLou 05-21-2013 02:56 PM

PROMAXX previously the Patriot freedom series SBC Aluminum head. I am building a 350 for my 1969 Nova.

NovaLou 05-21-2013 03:01 PM

Peak HP 420 at 5,900 Peak TQ 417 at 4,300 Valve Sizes 2.02/1.60 Intake Port 185cc Chamber 64cc Valvesprings 1.430-inch-diameter single
Read more: Eight Budget Small Block Chevy Heads Tested - Car Craft Magazine

techinspector1 05-21-2013 03:35 PM

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pmx-2169
Make certain these heads are filled with hydraulic roller springs, such as these that are recommended for the camshaft I'm using here.....
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/crn-99838-16
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/su...0-30/overview/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fel-1003
This gasket has a pre-flattened fire ring to prevent brinelling aluminum heads. Cut the block decks to zero, according to the sum of your parts, using the thickness of this gasket as the squish figure (0.041") Static compression ratio will be 10.1:1
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ed...make/chevrolet
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-210200/overview/
1 5/8" long-tube, tuned headers with H or X pipe installed before the mufflers.
Welcome to Race-Mart - Quality isn't an accident
Cam will require minimum 2500 stall converter or manual transmission
Install the cam 4 degrees retarded on these 0.050" tappet lift numbers....
Intake opens (8) BTDC
Intake closes (42) ABDC
Exhaust opens (48) BBDC
Exhaust closes (10) ATDC

RPM....HP....TQ
2000....140....367
2500....178....373
3000....226....395
3500....281....422
4000....333....437
4500....376....440
5000....410....430
5500....425....403
6000....420....368

Peak volumetric efficiency 93.4% @5000
Peak BMEP 188.8 lbs @4500

NovaLou 05-21-2013 05:14 PM

Thank you, is there an advantage to going with hydraulic? Whats the difference when compared to roller cam? The cam you recommended is out of my price range, although I found other Crain Cams in my price range: (New CRANE CAMS hydraulic camshaft & lifters. #12353915) cost $200. (CRAIN CAM hydraulic camshaft & lifters. #113902) cost $140. and (CRAIN CAM #113522 "Z" cam and lifter kit) cost $222........................
looking to stay around $200 or under. building this engine on a budget.

Thanks again

techinspector1 05-21-2013 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NovaLou (Post 1677576)
Thank you, is there an advantage to going with hydraulic? Whats the difference when compared to roller cam? The cam you recommended is out of my price range, although I found other Crain Cams in my price range: (New CRANE CAMS hydraulic camshaft & lifters. #12353915) cost $200. (CRAIN CAM hydraulic camshaft & lifters. #113902) cost $140. and (CRAIN CAM #113522 "Z" cam and lifter kit) cost $222........................
looking to stay around $200 or under. building this engine on a budget.
Thanks again

A little education is in order. Basically, there are 4 kinds of camshafts in use currently in the automotive arena....

1. Hydraulic Flat Tappet.....an inexpensive design, where valve lash is maintained by oil pressure within the body of the tappet. We have encountered many problems with flat tappet cams in the past few years because of the removal of extreme lubricants from off-the-shelf motor oils. The point of contact between the cam lobe and the tappet, depending on valve spring tension, can be more than a quarter of a million pounds per square inch. Anyone contemplating using a flat tappet camshaft in today's world needs to read and re-read this tutorial.....
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/w...ips_and_tricks

2. Mechanical Flat Tappet....another inexpensive design, where valve lash is adjusted and maintained by the car owner, usually not more than twice a year.

3. Hydraulic Roller Tappet.....a more expensive design, but virtually bulletproof, regardless of oil quality. Valve lash is adjusted and maintained by oil pressure within the body of the tappet. The tappet features a steel roller on the bottom of the tappet, which rolls on the camshaft lobe.

4. Mechanical Roller Tappet....a more expensive design, but virtually bulletproof, regardless of oil quality. Valve lash is adjusted and maintained by the car owner, usually not more than twice a year.

I will be the first person to realize and understand that you have only "X" dollars to spend on an upgrade, but it is also my responsibility to advise you that if you use a flat tappet camshaft and don't do everything absolutely by the tutorial I linked for you above, the cam can easily fail. Then, you have to tear down the entire motor, clean out all the shrapnel left behind by the flat tappet camshaft, buy a new cam and lifters and gaskets and rebuild the motor a second time. Then it could fail the second time and you'd be in for the third build. If there is any way for you to save up for a Roller Tappet Hydraulic camshaft, I VERY STRONGLY ADVISE IT.

vinniekq2 05-21-2013 06:50 PM

I strongly advise to use a roller cam also. compared to flat tappet
They make more power,
idle smoother

bygddy 05-21-2013 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NovaLou (Post 1677576)
Thank you, is there an advantage to going with hydraulic? Whats the difference when compared to roller cam? The cam you recommended is out of my price range, although I found other Crain Cams in my price range: (New CRANE CAMS hydraulic camshaft & lifters. #12353915) cost $200. (CRAIN CAM hydraulic camshaft & lifters. #113902) cost $140. and (CRAIN CAM #113522 "Z" cam and lifter kit) cost $222........................
looking to stay around $200 or under. building this engine on a budget.

Thanks again

The cams your listing are hyd flat tappet.
Tech and Vinnie are 100% right, and read the link tech gave you. If there is any way to swing for a hyd roller then absolutely do it, more power everywhere, and 100% more reliability.
BUT.....if that's not in the budget......and don't get terrified if it isn't, many people are still using flat tappet cams....then may I make a couple suggestions that keep things simple? If your new to all of this (which I'm talking out of my *** and have no idea) then some of tech's info is going to be over your head. He is way smarter then alot of us and knows his stuff inside and out....but its alot to take in..... a 350-400hp 355 is dead simple.....
Summit rebuild kit with 0.030 slugs, get the block zero decked.
0.041 head gasket
Your requested heads
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/pmx-2169/overview/
Cam
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hr...make/chevrolet
Intake
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-7101
Carb
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-0-4777c/overview/

Comp is 10:2.1, should make the numbers your looking for assuming the published flow numbers Patriot had still stand up.
No reason they shouldn't be the same

Tech? Am I close here....cam straight up installed, 1.5 rockers....?
2500-3000 stall and 373 or better depending on tire, this should be fun.

Oh and use this at every oil change
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-159

techinspector1 05-21-2013 09:39 PM

Smaller carburetor, smaller cam than last Sim, all else the same.
Order the cam direct from Howards and have them nitride it before shipping to you. Install the cam retarded 4 degrees on these 0.050" tappet lift numbers....
Intake opens (0.5) BTDC
Intake closes (40.5) ABDC
Exhaust opens (38.5) BBDC
Exhaust closes (2.5) ATDC

RPM...HP...TQ
2000...146...384
2500...184...388
3000...232...407
3500...284...427
4000...329...430
4500...364...425
5000...385...406
5500...371...355

Peak volumetric efficiency 87.3% @4500
Peak BMEP 186.1 lbs @4000
Nice combination bygddy.:thumbup:

bygddy 05-21-2013 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by techinspector1 (Post 1677653)
Smaller carburetor, smaller cam than last Sim, all else the same.
Order the cam direct from Howards and have them nitride it before shipping to you. Install the cam retarded 4 degrees on these 0.050" tappet lift numbers....
Intake opens (0.5) BTDC
Intake closes (40.5) ABDC
Exhaust opens (38.5) BBDC
Exhaust closes (2.5) ATDC

RPM...HP...TQ
2000...146...384
2500...184...388
3000...232...407
3500...284...427
4000...329...430
4500...364...425
5000...385...406
5500...371...355

Peak volumetric efficiency 87.3% @4500
Peak BMEP 186.1 lbs @4000
Nice combination bygddy.:thumbup:

Thanks! That Crane cam you listed? Is that priced with lifters? I feel silly saying I have never seen that racemart site before.....the pricing seems excellent.....now I'm going to wind up window shopping on my tablet all night .....:D
Thanks for showing me that lol...

NovaLou 05-22-2013 04:19 PM

I would like to go with Hydraulic Roller Cam as you both recommended so I was wondering if either of the 2 listed below would stack up to the Crane Cam you recommended.



SBC Comp Cams
Fits Roller Cam Bearings 50mm
Solid Lifter Roller Cam Shaft
Valve Lift Intake .674 1.6 Rocker
Exhaust .632 1.5 Rocker
Duration at .050
Intake .258
Exhaust .262
Lobe Separation 106
Serial # H-2380
Intake.020 Exhaust.022


-------------------------
SBC Comp Cams
Fits Roller Cam Bearings 50mm
Solid Lifter Roller Cam Shaft
Valve Lift Intake .732
Exhaust .673
Duration at .050
Intake .264
Exhaust .268
Lobe Separation 108
Serial # N-4996
Intake.018 Exhaust.020


Thanks again for all of your advise.

techinspector1 05-22-2013 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NovaLou (Post 1677864)
I was wondering if either of the 2 listed below would stack up to the Crane Cam you recommended.

Not even close. Those are race cams you're lookin' at.

bygddy 05-22-2013 05:23 PM

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hr...make/chevrolet


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