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Old 02-11-2014, 03:38 PM
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Proportioning valve and steering box question

So I'm building a rat rod and have almost everything done except the
brakes and steering. My first question is, do I need a proportioning valve
for my brakes or is it already integrated in the master cylinder? I have been
told two separate things by reliable sources so I am confused. The frame I
am using is an S10 frame with front disc brakes. One large line going to the
back brakes and two separate lines for the front (one to each side). The brake
booster and master cylinder I'm using is from a Ford Ranger. Is all I need is a
"T" for the front brake lines, or do I need an actual proportional valve, or is it
already integrated in the master cylinder?

My next question is...Do I need a manual steering box if I want to do manual
steering? The stock power steering box is currently installed, but I cut the lines
and hosed them together to just do manual steering to avoid having to bulk up
the front of the motor with the power steering pump. Will it be too hard to
drive by doing manual steering this way or would I greatly benefit by getting
a manual steering pump to go along with manual steering? Is it bad to do
manual steering with a power steering pump installed, and just cut off and
hosed together?

Thanks for any advice and help!

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Old 02-11-2014, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacuff1414 View Post
So I'm building a rat rod and have almost everything done except the
brakes and steering. My first question is, do I need a proportioning valve
for my brakes or is it already integrated in the master cylinder? I have been
told two separate things by reliable sources so I am confused. The frame I
am using is an S10 frame with front disc brakes. One large line going to the
back brakes and two separate lines for the front (one to each side). The brake
booster and master cylinder I'm using is from a Ford Ranger. Is all I need is a
"T" for the front brake lines, or do I need an actual proportional valve, or is it
already integrated in the master cylinder?

My next question is...Do I need a manual steering box if I want to do manual
steering? The stock power steering box is currently installed, but I cut the lines
and hosed them together to just do manual steering to avoid having to bulk up
the front of the motor with the power steering pump. Will it be too hard to
drive by doing manual steering this way or would I greatly benefit by getting
a manual steering pump to go along with manual steering? Is it bad to do
manual steering with a power steering pump installed, and just cut off and
hosed together?

Thanks for any advice and help!
If you don't have a proportional valve,, Best to add one,, On the steering,, If you don't want power,, Get the right box..
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Old 02-11-2014, 04:30 PM
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Prop valve will be in the combination valve(safety valve) that should be mounted to the frame , where all the lines go to. If you don't have one go to the boneyard and grab one. It will have 2 ports for lines coming in, and 2 going out for the front brakes and one that goes to the rear, which splits on the rear axle.


You can use a PS box in a non power setup.It will have a quicker ratio but will be a chore to turn if parallel parking ( maybe unlikely)
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Old 02-11-2014, 05:47 PM
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Moving this thread to Suspension, Brakes and Steering forum.
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Old 02-11-2014, 08:12 PM
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Thanks for the replies.

What would happen if I did not use a proportioning valve and only a T?
Would I get too much fluid to the brakes?
A buddy I've been talking to about it that knows a lot about this stuff says
that I don't need one because the master cylinder has one already integrated
in it. He said they started doing it at some point from the factory.
Another guy tells me I do need one. If it were true that there is one
integrated in the master, what would happen if I added another proportional
valve like you guys are saying?
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:51 AM
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Keep in mind that a "factory" proportioning valve is designed for a specific vehicle with a certain tire size, weight, and CG (among other things). Adding any old J/Y prop valve will likely cause more issues than not having one at all. On a custom vehicle, it's best to add a fully adjustable "race" type valve that you can set once your car is finished. I've never seen a master cylinder with the prop valve built in it, post a link...

Russ
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Old 02-12-2014, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S10xGN View Post
Keep in mind that a "factory" proportioning valve is designed for a specific vehicle with a certain tire size, weight, and CG (among other things). Adding any old J/Y prop valve will likely cause more issues than not having one at all. On a custom vehicle, it's best to add a fully adjustable "race" type valve that you can set once your car is finished. I've never seen a master cylinder with the prop valve built in it, post a link...

Russ
Would it hurt to go without one at all?
I have a T fitting that the front brakes can go into and then to the
master...but will that be sufficient enough? What damage could it do if
not?
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Old 02-12-2014, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacuff1414 View Post
Would it hurt to go without one at all?
I have a T fitting that the front brakes can go into and then to the
master...but will that be sufficient enough? What damage could it do if
not?
The worst that could happen is you'll "swap ends" under heavy braking (not good) if the rear's get too much pressure. Most guys run a wider tire with a larger contact patch in the rear which helps to negate that effect...

Russ
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Old 02-12-2014, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S10xGN View Post
The worst that could happen is you'll "swap ends" under heavy braking (not good) if the rear's get too much pressure. Most guys run a wider tire with a larger contact patch in the rear which helps to negate that effect...

Russ
Well it's a rat rod I'm building and the tires are super wide in the back with
small tires up front. Guess I'll try it with just the T and see what
happens.
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Old 02-12-2014, 04:22 PM
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A Junkyard prop valve will be OK as long as you get one from a same build vehicle. A valve from a system that is still closed should be fine.You wouldn't want one from a car with the system laying open for months.
As suggested and I would agree, it would be best to use an aftermarket adjustable one to optimize your braking system, since you are changing tire size and such. It makes it a bunch easier to get it right with out a lot of messing around.
Don't run it without one. Chances are the rears will lock up first and all the time without one.
The valves your friend is talking about may be the residual pressure valves. They are built in to the master. They keep a small amount of brake pressure on the system to keep the clearances in check at the brake pad /shoes to the drums/rotors....so the pedal is higher and has a good feel.
Remember the end of the master with the large reservoir (regardless if it is the front or rear of master ) is for the disc brake end of the system as the discs need the extra fluid due to the fact that the fluid takes up the space behind the piston as it moves out from pads wearing down.There are no adjusters on the disc brakes.
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:23 PM
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adjustable proportion valve is the way to go..
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Old 02-13-2014, 05:06 PM
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Valves

What I think you need is a metering valve for the front disk brakes. It will not let the front bakes come on till around 75lbs is applied to the back brakes. It takes that much pressure to overcome the tension of the rear brake springs. Without it the front brakes will apply to soon. A proportioning valve will retard rear brake application. You will have front lockup to soon. The key is to have as equal pressure front and back as you can. On my latest car I have no valveing at all, they work great. Don't over think it.

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Old 02-13-2014, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 car guy View Post
What I think you need is a metering valve for the front disk brakes. It will not let the front bakes come on till around 75lbs is applied to the back brakes. It takes that much pressure to overcome the tension of the rear brake springs. Without it the front brakes will apply to soon. A proportioning valve will retard rear brake application. You will have front lockup to soon. The key is to have as equal pressure front and back as you can. On my latest car I have no valveing at all, they work great. Don't over think it.

.
That why my first suggestion was a JY prop valve. It has it all built in.
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Old 02-13-2014, 05:45 PM
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Keep in mind your front brakes do more of the braking then the back,, Ran a adjustable proportion valve on the past 20 cars with no problem at all.. No need for a metering valve,,
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Old 02-13-2014, 06:04 PM
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What is a JY prop valve? If I could get away with not using anything but a T, I would. You guys are saying it's a MUST to use some type of prop valve? Why are some other car guys I've been talking to saying I don't need one at all? My buddy that's been helping me out with my rat rod is building a 47' ford truck with disc brakes and said it came from the factory without any kind of prop valve. Why would I have to have one?
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