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Old 07-30-2003, 02:55 PM
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Protecting yourself

I don't know how many of you guys (and ladies) see what's going on over here in the UK on your news programmes but we have a situation here at the moment where a chap shot and killed a young kid who had broken into his home with the intention of stealing. The guy had his home broken into on 6 previous occasions but he was convicted of manslaughter and sent to prison for 5 years. He was released a couple of days ago.
I was chatting to some of my work mates about this and we reckon that the law in this country is different to elsewhere but I said I would ask you guys if that's the case.

Hellz

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Old 07-30-2003, 03:09 PM
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I don't know about other states but as I know the law here in Texas, someone breaks into your house and your at home, your life is in danger, shoot to kill. Just make sure they stay inside the house. As long as the body drops inside your free and clear. The person must be completely inside your home. If they are just comming in thru a window or door and you shoot and they end up half in/out or outside you go to prison for manslaughter.

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Old 07-30-2003, 03:18 PM
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The kid who got shot had an accomplice who was shot and wounded, he has just been released from prison for drug dealing but he was going to sue the chap who shot him for lose of earnings. He also only did a third of his sentence because of the trauma he had undergone. They 2 kids were travellers (gypsies)
and we have heard that the authorities are thinking about building a travellers camp next to the home of the guy who did the shooting.
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Old 07-30-2003, 03:19 PM
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Thst's pretty much the universal law in the U.S. The right to bear arms is hard wired in the Constitution and as far as the courts follow that right, you are allowed to use a gun however you wish on an intruder. Of course, courts don't pay much attention to the Constitution any more so that right will probably go away soon.
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Old 07-30-2003, 05:58 PM
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I think the courts would be much the same here, although I believe with all the circumstances involved he would be given time served since it would take three years to get to courts anyway.

I think in a situation like this your best friends would be the cops that assisted and took the other calls for the previous home invasions...assuming he phoned the cops the other times. Establishing a precedent of past abuse/battery would establish a nice case of "temporary insanity". One thing is for sure, if you shot him with an unregistered weapon in Canada you will go to jail.

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Old 07-30-2003, 07:01 PM
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Me, I don't care about any stinking laws. When it comes to the safety and well being of my family, let's just say I would rather be tried by twelve, than carried by six.
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Old 07-30-2003, 07:37 PM
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I think a good hard whack on the head with a baseball bat would knock him out long enough for you to tie him up and perhaps dole out some justice before the cops arrived.
I have no compassion for those people AT ALL!!
But, they are not worth going to jail over. You have to think of your family and how your going to jail would affect them, especially your kids.

Chickie.
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Old 07-30-2003, 08:10 PM
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Caught a kid breaking into my garage. Even tho I had a gun he became mouthy until I explained that I could shoot him because he was breaking in and threatened me with a knife. When He told me he didn't have a knife I told him " You will have when the cops find you". After that it was yes sir and no sir until the cops came. He only got probation but I don't think he will be back. Course now there's a pit bull living in the garage so let him come.
Jack
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Old 07-30-2003, 08:12 PM
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That's my kinda' thinkin'
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Old 07-30-2003, 08:52 PM
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Hey Bluepen, that is an old wives tale about making sure the body drops inside the house. In Texas you can shoot and kill someone who has robbed you at home as he is running away with your property. Nowhere in chapter 2 of the Texas Concealed Handgun Laws does it say anything about keeping the dead person in your house, or even on your property.

PC 9.42. Deadly Force To Protect Property
A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:

Section B reads: To prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing a burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property.

You may recall the famous case where a homeowner shot and killed a reposser who was repossing the homeowners car as he was driving away. The homeowner was "no billed" by the grand jury.

I am very grateful that I do not live in the rights grabbing UK., but the shape they are in should be a warning to all who cherish constitutionally given rights.

Vince
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Old 07-30-2003, 09:01 PM
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my dad, this one time at band camp,

caught a little f'r, a 16 y/o in the process of entering his house, detained sed little sob til the law arrived. while waiting, the kid asked my olman what he was gonna do with him. my dad replied,"im gonna take you into my back yard where its nice and dark, and i'm gonna beat the piss outta you." didn't have to, as he wet his britches right then and there......
the law said they couldn't do nothing cos the sob hadn't actually done anything, my ol man sez to the law, 'well get the hell outta my way so i can throw his **** threw the window, then you can arrest him for breaking and entering".....
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Old 07-30-2003, 10:46 PM
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The law in Texas isn't much different then the one we have in Oregon. Thing is, If the A-hole lives to tell about it, his mouthpiece will paint a whole different picture of what happened. Another thing too... Any puke that is wired up enough and desperate enough to violate your property isn't likely to just fall over dead when shot once or twice with a small caliber hand gun.

That kind of sheet happens only in the movies.

A few shoot to kill rules must be followed in a situation like this:

(1) Never shoot a crook in the back, his mouthpiece will have his way with you in court.

(2) Never shoot someone outside your principle dwelling. Unless they're in the house, anything other than trespass is hard to prove in court and shooting trespassers will draw jail time.

(3) never assume a 22 caliber anything will protect your home.

(4) Never use fully jacketed rounds for personal protection around the house. 00-buck or hollow points have knock down power for situations like this.

(5) Fire and clean your weapon regularly.

(6) Never threaten an intruder, just shoot to kill. Statements like "HALT!" or "FREEZE, I'VE GOT A GUN!" only work in the movies. He's probably armed too and he'll get the first shot off. That'll probably make you deader then you'd like him to be.

(7) Always look for a head shot. If he does a death run and you have to drag him back in the house to be legal about it, add tampering with evidence to your manslaughter charge.


There are several more but I won't bore you with them. In the house - shoot first and ask questions later. Outside in the yard, well, you better be prepared to dip into the 'ol 401(K) for legal expenses. Don't have one? Sell what you got left... You'll need the money.

Anyone who would let some chickenshiit thief send 'em to the big house ain't too savvy - can anybody say "INSURANCE?"..... I'd rather be the dead sonofabiitch than the one stewing over it in the pen. I think when I got out I'd have to shoot me a lawyer or two. (in the back..... TWICE!)

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Old 07-31-2003, 04:52 AM
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The story about the UK resident was reported a little differently over here. I heard he was a farmer and his property had been broken into several times. He sat up one night with his shotgun and caught two perps breaking into his house. He fired, killing one and injuring the other. Yep, the homeowner was charged, convicted, and went to prison.

Now for the salt in the wound. When the perp that was injured got out of the hospital he obtained money from the state to sue the homeowner. His grounds for the suit were his injuries prevented him from carrying on his livelyhood, which of course was a life of crime as his rap sheet proved. To top it off he won.

Vince
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Old 07-31-2003, 05:12 AM
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You got it Vince. The guy is now in a safe house because a contract has been put on his head by the family of the dead kid.
The question is, who is the victim? The guy who gets robbed or the slime ball who gets shot.
Interesting point made by PrimeMover about giving warnings. When I was in the Army, we had to give a warning before shooting and we had a card to carry around with us saying exactly what we should do. The idea was to protect us when the s**t hit the fan afterwards. Fortunately, I didn't have to put it to the test.

Thanks for the replies.

Hellz
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Old 07-31-2003, 08:15 AM
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Above posts give clues how to do the job right. Get a big enough gun to do the job. Nothing smaller than a .38. My wife carries a .38 special and I have a .45. Second, if you shoot, shoot to kill. There is no such thing as 'shoot to wound'. That is advice my wife got from the county sheriff deputy who taught her concealed weapons class. Our county has virtually no gang action even though we are only 1 1/2 hr form Los Angeles because our police and sheriff follow that principle. Every once in a while we have some punks come up from LA and rob a bank or some such mayhem and they invariably leave the county in body bags. Great reputation to have with the thugs of the world!
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