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Pump them up?

50K views 500 replies 11 participants last post by  Wezz 
#1 ·
Hi. Yesterday my new cam and lifters. Were dilivered But now im dnt know if i have to pump them up or put them in a container with oil. The edelbrock says no but a lot of people are saying yes . So what to do .. Thnx
 
#8 ·
Wezz:

This is what I posted on another thread about pumping up lifters:

Jester

Cleaning , and proper lubricating is a much better use of your time. There are so many installers who don't do that most important step CLEANING!!


Soaking in a can of oil is messy and wont fill a lifter only the small cavity above the plunger & below the pushrod seat! you must compress the lifter till it bottoms out and release it to fill it while under the oil in the can, or tear it down fill and reassemble it for those of you that want to fill yours:drunk:
Bleed down rates vary by design if heavy break in lube or small debree enters the lifter with a slow bleed down rate it can lock the lifter and it wont bleed down! That's why you don't use anything but oil on the lifter bores or the sides of the lifters! Over the years Ive seen them locked up right out of the box and had to tear down and clean them or get a replacement, and some that wont pump up! cheap brands like Su----, J--s, Cr-w, etc Maybe a dozen over 50 years installing cams kits or new lifters!

The last word from me on this is if a tech sheet said don't pump up a lifter I wouldn't say "Hell I'm going to pump it up anyway"! Nor would I say "Hell I'm going to break in my cam at 4000 rpm for 15 min" if a tech sheet say's 2000 for 1/2 hr. because some people say that's all that's needed or wrote a paper on it ,or you watched u tube and saw some videos of people doing it and the car still runs at the end of their home made video
 
#10 ·
Follow Edelbrocks instructions or don't your going to get answers on both sides of the question If you think the people who say pump em up are right and all the people who say don't plus Edelbrock, VooDoo, Crane, Howards, ETC, who engeneered and designed the product are wrong!! Do as you wish!

Its your engine:thumbup:

Jester


Do your tech sheets read different then this? Do they say pump them up?

Edelbrock Corp.
INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS
1. Coat cam lobes and bottom of each lifter with MOS2 lube supplied
with your kit. This will prevent cam lobe and lifter
wear from occurring during initial engine start up. Do NOT
pre-oil or "pump-up" lifters before installation as this may
hold valves off the valve seat leading to loss of compression
and/or bent valves during initial engine start up.
 
#12 ·
There are a couple of lifter that are pumped up before installation usually ant pump 0 lash types and Rhoads lifters! So a person needs to read directions!

Jester

HOW TO's: ORIGINAL RHOADS LIFTERS

Before installation, each Rhoads Lifter should be fully filled with oil. To fill with oil, completely submerge each lifter upright into a container of oil and compress the inner plunger with a pushrod or screwdriver until the plunger is driven to the bottom of the lifter. Hold several seconds and release slowly. Repeat several times until the lifter is fully filled. NOTE: Soaking lifters in oil will not fill them. Also, make sure to apply assembly lube to each cam lobe and lifter bottom!





To understand and adjust your lifters go here: :thumbup:
http://www.crankshaftcoalition.com/wiki/Adjusting_hydraulic_lifters


Good night Wezz its 4:30 A.M. here!!!:embarrass
 
#14 ·
Im a little confused right now. So the question again . Do you recomend pump up the edelbrock lifters. Yes or no? Thanks

why are you not doing as the MAKER OF THE KIT says..
they've done the R&D they know what works and what doesn't.. with their gear.. either follow what they say or.. don't call them when your engine/cam fails..
#1 reason for cam failures.. installers that think some web guy knows more than the company that spent many r&d hours on their parts..

unless it was a top name builder telling you different than edel.
and you are on first name basic with him/her..
follow the directions surplied with your kit.. if you lost them edel will gladly email you them if they are not on their web site already...

good luck.. did you degreee the cam.. or just going to stab it in..
 
#19 ·
hydraulics


wezz
there are 2 kinds of engine builders
1: guy buys parts,gets things machined,assembles engine,installs it and drives it
performance=depends on luck

builder 2:
guy meticulously chooses matching parts that work well together, gets things machined and very carefully checks all the parts for perfect fit,makes any and all corrections as he goes. assembles all parts making triple sure all parts are perfectly in sinc,hand fits crucial elements like piston to wall,piston to valve,exact phasing of cam timing,test fits cam plus and minus 4 degrees incase he decides to retune valve timing at a later date.Installs the engine and then after proper break in,spends several hours doing a detailed tune up including often over looked things like adjusting air bleeds and jetting to get perfect A/F ratios for his/her purpose,same for F.I. but done differently.Ignition is tuned to the cars application.

which class are you in?
 
#20 ·
Honestly i am in clas 1. Becouse here in holland they dont know so much as you guys in the us . I am a welder no mecanic or what else . My hobby is my van i want to learn things over a v8 engine. But in holland its diffucult to. See a person. Who has the know of the engines like you . So i ask (whit the best english i can) To you guys how to do it.i get a paper from edelbrock. Which says do not pump them up. I was looking on the web what pumping up means. And i found out there are people says yes do it end people no do it not .
 
#21 ·
It is not necessary to pump up the lifter before installtion and adjustment and not harmful if you do as long as you're aware that each takes a little variation in the initial set up.

For not pumped up:
- Adjust the nut just to the point where any free lash is taken up. You're going to be checking against the spring that want to push the plunger up against the retainer bail or clip so this a bit spongy in feel, it is not necessary to tighten to where the push rod is clamped and cannot be moved at all, this has the plunger bottomed. An advantage to this processs is that the valve will not be opened very far till oil pressure builds in the engine so the lifter to lobe interface will not immediatly be exposed to full spring pressure for a few revolutions.

For pumped up:
- Adjust just till there is just no lash perhaps even a couple thou loose, although for lifters using the wire bale rather than a circlip to retain the plunger running there is a risk of the bail comming out of its groove so this is not something you want to do for long. The plunger is being held against the retainer bail/clip by oil trapped under the plunger, the metering valve to this cavity needs motion to operate properly set the zero lash against spring pressure with the valve closed. If you set the lash a 1 or 2 turns of the retaining nut it will hold the valve open a small amount which will make the engine harder to start as it will bleed compression until the lifters have been cycled enough to bleed off the excess oil trapped in the adjusting chamber alowing the valve to seat. Of course the cam and lifter interface will see full valve spring pressure from the get-go and these days with break-in of the cam being so critical avoiding this situation could be helpful for lobe/lifter life.


The way a hydraulic lifter works is when engine oil pressure exceeds the closed valve spring pressure and a lash exists in the connecting hardware from the lifter to the valve stem tip, the metering valve in the bottom of the plunger is opened by engine oil pressure allowing the cavity between the bottom of the plunger and the lifter's intenral bore to be filled with oil. As the lobe lifts the tappet against the valve spring the metering valve closes trapping the oil in the cavity locking the plunger to the lifter body thus transmitting the motion of the body to the plunger. These opposing forces keep the plunger within the initial adjustment range. The lifter if fully pumped up by the installers action or if in operationthe engine is run at an RPM where the lifters have pumped-up; the only way the lifter can re-establish a proper zero lash position is by cycling off and on and off the lobe. Some lifters have a built in leak like the Rhoads of other anti-pump up lifters and will bleed back down till the valve is closed without cycling, some lifters that shouldn't will still leak enough to do this. All of these leakers that do so by design intent or not are the lifters you hear clatter on a cold start in the morning.

Bogie
 
#23 · (Edited)
Great post Bogie I type so slow it would take me hrs and soaking my one finger that I type with LOL:pain::smash:

I'll add: The lifters that are holding pressure can set for a week or more and still be holding pressure keeping a valve open while the leakers slowly loose pressure letting the valves close! Ive torn down engines after setting for years in the woods that had lifter that still held their pressure!

Jester
 
#22 · (Edited)
Wezz:welcome:

The reason you degree a cam is to verify spec.s (a problem with machining), And some cams are ground advanced moving your power band to more bottom end You verify if it is or not, you can also lose a lot of compression depending on where the cam is installed! also a lot of timing chain sets are set up advanced even the 3 key way gear types can be advanced and some straight up! So you degree a cam to set it for when you want the power to come in at a particular R.P.M.! If you install a cam with an advance already in it and gears advanced you can really kill all your mid or top end power!! They sell advanced and retarded wood-ruff keys and other devices to move the degree point! for true power you don't just stab a cam in It, it may impress you when running but you will never know how much power you have missed!

Always check the manufacturer of the timing set if the main key way is advanced or straight up! Some builders set them up advanced because as the chain stretches and wears it retards slowly through time and gets closer to straight up position!

Jester
 
#25 ·
Ok: If you understand what bogie and I posted , that a lifter can hold pressure for a long time with valve spring pressure on it!!! And you pump them up and install them they can hold this pressure during your dry assembly! So when priming the engine they are already filled and holding the valves at max because you filled them already! Now when you first start the engine and quickly bring it to 2500 rpm a few lifters might hold valves open (till the lifters metering system bleeds some oil) causing loss of compression delaying start up and as the engine cranks your break in lube is being rubbed off your lobes and lifters you then can cause damage to the cam and lifters! But if your lifters are installed not pumped up and you do your engine prime with valves set at initial adjustment, as you turn engine over by hand while priming the gallys, the lifters will fill to running position because they have valve spring pressure being supplied to them! You hit the key and your engine has compression from the get go! No delay no rough running till they bleed off! If you have very close tolerances and the prepumped up lifters happen to hold the valves open a hair too much you may have slight contact and bend or damage your valve train!

100,000 people may never see a damage caused by pumping up their lifter before installation but if you are the one in the 100,000 that does :pain:you will wish you read and followed directions :mwink:

Jester

If you don't understand Im sorry I tried to type it as simple as I could Maybe someone can explain it better then I. I understand it and know what I am trying to tell you so it looks good to me:thumbup: LOL:mwink:
 
#27 ·
In my opinion yes! especially if your a beginner and doing your own adjustments 0 or a couple of thousands lash initial adjustment before start up is tougher then a fractional turn of the rocker arm nut for a beginner:thumbup:

Put your country and age in your profile Wezz :welcome:
Jester
 
#31 ·
My statement was : "Ive torn down engines after setting for years in the woods that had lifter that still held their pressure!"



Many times have I looked for cars in scrap yards or farmers fields when one has an engine Im looking for I'll open the hoods, Ill check the oil pull the valve covers put a wrench on the damper and turn it over as I turn the crank to make 4 revolutions The rockers will move a little most have collapsed over time but a few lifters will still move the rocker arms to full open because when the car quit running they were full of oil at the heal of the lobe with the valve closed and with no pressure to force them to bleed off. the oil was trapped in the lifter for all that time! I see this every year when prepping cars for people after a winter storage some lifters in the engines are still pumped up after 3 or 4 months!

I can build an engine set lash at zero, prime, break it in, run it on a stand set it aside and wait for installation for a month or more! When installed Ill go to bring # 1 up to to top dead center and see lifters that didn't bleed down (because of their position on the cam lobe) open valves to their complete cycle!

When an engine is shut off there will always be a few lifters in positions that wont cause their bleed down! I thought my other statement read OK:confused: I guess I wasn't clear on my meaning! Sorry:(

Jester
 
#34 ·
Full or empty its still 0 lash Its easier to set lifters for a beginner using the bounce method with the push rod and giving 1/4 turn initial set to the nut when you are at the point the push rod doesn't move up and down! that's all I meant Its not really hard either way for most but some just cant grasp it! ask any auto shop teacher LOL!

Are you using a translator when we send this in English! I never even thought of that if you do it must make it hard! Did the instructions for the cam come in English?

Jester
 
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