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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2012, 09:06 AM
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Thanks Brian, that's why I mentioned doing body work in the quarters on this Nova...The reason I remember the Camaro so well is because I refused to do the body work in the quarters on that car until the rear rails where checked and sure enough they where out. I was flat rate at the time and who was going to pay for me to do the body work twice and the frame guy and I got into it real hard, he was screaming, yelling and swearing at me to all ends, I just remember smiling at him saying "just check it"...I think the frame guy in that shop remembers too. LOL

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2012, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
Thanks Brian, that's why I mentioned doing body work in the quarters on this Nova...The reason I remember the Camaro so well is because I refused to do the body work in the quarters on that car until the rear rails where checked and sure enough they where out. I was flat rate at the time and who was going to pay for me to do the body work twice and the frame guy and I got into it real hard, he was screaming, yelling and swearing at me to all ends, I just remember smiling at him saying "just check it"...I think the frame guy in that shop remembers too. LOL
And right you were!

Brian
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by NOVA1958 View Post
Finely getting it put back together to see how things line up before it goes to the paint shop.This car did not line up at all when I purchased it, big gap here, big gap there. It also had been wreaked on the driver side.

If I align these hoses it throws everything out of alignment door gaps,fender gaps and hood alignment.Has anybody had this problem.

Thanks
I want to make clear, I may have sounded "mad" about you not telling us in this thread about all the previous damage, it's nothing like that.

I didn't know about a previous discussion (or forgot about it) going over wheel base and what not so I was a little surprised to hear that's all.

Brian
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
I want to make clear, I may have sounded "mad" about you not telling us in this thread about all the previous damage, it's nothing like that.

I didn't know about a previous discussion (or forgot about it) going over wheel base and what not so I was a little surprised to hear that's all.

Brian
The OP has every right to be upset. If the "body guy" that was used during the reconstruction of this Nova would have given as good advice as Brian did, he wouldn't be in this situation now. Brian is far away from this Nova, but I know for a fact that had he been there things would be much different for him now.

Just a word of advice for the OP (and this is sincere advice), when you post, looking for help the best thing you can do to get good information for yourself, is to post all the information you have about your vehicle. The people here trying to help you can't see the vehicle and are giving advice based on the information given.

The OP should be P.O.ed at his "Body Guy".

Ray
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:19 PM
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Here's a pic of the dr side door, notice the gaps at the top and no gap at the bottom.I did alot of work on the dr side firewall I pulled it myself, not knowing the pillar was pushed in,now it fairly close.As for the subframe mount on the car also did alot of work so I would have more adjustment.When I first install the subframe I used the pass. side to go by because it seemed.The rear frame gage hole are right under the rear seat pan which show no damage at all.I took measurement of the rear but I've forgotten the measurements.I'm going to try and measure the rear again.I'm thinking like you guys I have more work ahead of me.Something I didn't mention was the both mounting holes in the radiator support,right and left are off like in the pic.As far as the dr door I've got it under control I'm going to do just a bit more to make it fit better and leave it alone.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:59 PM
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Measure the door openings too. The windshield pillar has some funkies to it! What the hell did this thing hit? The sub frame is back on that drivers side, you need to find some other parts to measure from so you confirm numbers.

Brian
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2012, 02:22 PM
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The quarters having been replaced without knowing what structural damage there is from the hit makes the situation more difficult and...What kind of work did you do to get "more adjustment" from your sub-frame? Things appear to be adding up as to why the front sheet metal doesn't line up.

When restoring a vehicle, certain procedures need to be followed, (You don't install the windshield wipers without a windshield being in first, I'm sorry if that sounds obvious but it's a fact and I'm not trying to be nasty), even more so on a Uni-body car like your Nova where you don't have a 1 piece frame and in effect, the body becomes part of the frame. Couple that with it being involved in an accident prior to the restoration.

This might help everybody involved and yourself...do you have pictures of the car the day you bought it or just before you started restoring it, all in one piece with smashed fenders and all so we can see what we are dealing with prior? Right now with the information coming in slowly and us not being there it's very difficult.

Ray
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:14 PM
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Yep, EVERYTHING needs to be checked now. Like the mounts on the body for the sub frame, are they square? How about from the rear mounts back to some control points in the rear, are they square?

As mentioned earlier, are the door openings square?

Brian
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:59 PM
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Here's some pics of the car right after I purchased the car, I had no idea it had been wreaked.I started with the floor pans and toe boards first then the pass. side quarter, moving on to the driver side quarter ,the only evidence of any damage was a small patch panel and some bondo on the dr.side not that bad.As for the work done on the car side of the subframe mount all I did was make the hole larger where I would have more adjustment also did the same to the dr side of the subframe mount.All I'm looking for is a happy medium up front because the sub frame has to be straight so the front bump doesn't hit either side.







Took some more measurements of the rear.
O.75 9/16
j. 75 3/8
n.64 11/16 driver side 64 13/16 pass sid



Again thank for the help.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2012, 06:21 PM
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Don't know if this has any relevance to what you are trying to do, but I'll throw out a couple things that I noticed pretty quick. (I am a 68-72 Nova Guru after all...haha )

The rear bumper (to me) appears to sit up too high on the tailights (wacked in the rear at some point?)

The two front fenders are twisted upwards. The "eyebrow molding" should be level across the top and a straight line across the front of the hood.

Andy
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2012, 07:41 PM
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Very good call Andy, my suspicion has always been rear end damage. It could very well be that the damage hadn't been addressed in the previous build of this car. The headlight eyebrow may have been rolled to make the molding mate up to the Fiberglass hood, not sure it's a picture, but we do know that the front sub-frame had damage.

I'm not a frame guy, meaning I don't do frames on a consistent basis, but...

In Nova1958's last post there are more measurements, measurements without a tram gauge get you relatively close, and relatively is not close enough especially when your "O" & "J" measurement is out 3/16 of an inch. 3/16th of an inch in the rear can be over an inch on the front when your lining your subframe up to the rear frame rails.

Now we find out that the floor and toe pans have been replaced, in post #7 it says " The only new sheet metal is pass.front fender,both rear quarters,everything else is factory". The car was on a rotisserie, is it here that the floor pans where welded in, where they welded in one at a time or all cut out and welded in together? Holes where enlarged to accommodate better front sub-frame adjustment, the list gets longer and with every addition, many more variables.

I'm thinking that someone has been given information to get them to this point. If Nova1958 is asking for information now, I think he probably asked for it before and the initial information was wrong. I'm looking at the body of work required to get it right and I need to think some more...?
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:50 PM
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As I've been saying thanks to all for the replies good and bad,but if I listed everything that I've done to this car I'd be typing for awhile.This is an 3 year old project I'm sorry for for not listing everything.All I'm asking is it possible to take what I have and work with it to get it close,I'm not looking for perfect it's not going to be a show car just week end cruiser so I need advise,drawings anything that will help.See I learned something today I didn't know that being out 3/16 would transform into so much at the other end, that's the help I need.
Check out the thread below, it's not mine but this is what I did to line everything up.

http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums...d.php?t=122007
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2012, 10:24 PM
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Ok, stop and think about this, the rad support needs to be square with the body first and foremost. If you open the hood and cross measure from a control point on the rad support, the hood bumpers are often used for this. Measure from that on the left side to the top fender bolt at the cowl (I think those have a bolt that goes straight down into the cowl) on the right side. Then do the same thing across the other way, if it's square, then move the sub frame forward on the left side until the holes line up at the rad support, now MAKE the frame bolt in there. That is what we are talking about, and then you can work on minor fitting of the panels like any other car. But FIRST that sub frame has to sit under the car square with the upper body.

Brian
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2012, 05:09 AM
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Thats some great tips Brian. NOVA, I really enjoyed the video in that thread you linked of the Firebird subframe install... VERY GOOD STUFF



Andy
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:19 PM
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Well Nova 1958, by your last post I can tell you are a patient man and I thank you for that. I looked at your link and it seems to me that "69LT1Nova" gave you good advice there...You should be able to get a fit and finish of gaps and alignment that you may be able to live with. Follow what MARTINSR. just suggested, you can never cross measure enough from constant points...Please understand that anyone who has posted here has only had your best interest at heart and we are trying to help you with the information we are given...I understand that it would take you days to type everything you have done to the car.

You may need to get your front sub-frame square to the body and not the rear frame rails, correct me if I'm wrong Brian , but, the rear rails being what they are and where they are they aren't moving. If you follow all procedures that GM used with jigs and locator pins your car will not come together the way it looked in 1972 when it rolled off the assembly line...even GM used the locator pins as a guide and not a do all end all, but, they where working with new undamaged frame and body components.

Again, follow what Brian has posted and God willing you will get closer to a satisfactory fit for your Nova. Building a car from the frame up should be just that, starting with the frame and moving upwards, just like building a house. I currently have several projects for customers, one is a 1930 Model A 4 door and am converting it into a 1/4 ton truck. This involved cutting the back half of the car off, removing the rear doors section and welding the remaining back of the car to the front giving the vehicle a cab. The first thing that needed to be done was to get the frame and all mounting points in there proper place with numerous mock ups. Then I began the reassembly process, taking many measurements along the way...on a uni-body such as your Nova it's even more important as your not working with a full frame.

I thank you for your patience, I don't know if I've helped at all and do understand what you are going through. The hardest thing to fix is the thing that somebody else already has tried to fix. Please keep us informed, I'm learning as well and I sincerely wish you success in this project.

Best to you.
Ray
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