[MARTINSR]

Ray, yeah the rear should be all straight, then move forward measuring off those rear frame members under the body. But we know this isn't going to happen at this point, so following Nova's request..."All I'm asking is it possible to take what I have and work with it to get it close,I'm not looking for perfect All I'm asking is it possible to take what I have and work with it to get it close, I'm not looking for perfect"

And with that, getting the sheet metal straight on the front then "making" the sub frame fit it, is all I can throw out there, what else can he do? You can't make the sub frame fit what is wrong behind it, you need to adjust the front sheetmetal and then make the sub frame fit it. Hopefully the rear axle will be straight and it should be. But honestly, this is funky obviously, but what else to do when you are this far and "asking is it possible to get it close"?

I have built many things that were far from my best work, what were the expectations on that particular car? My Rambler is miles from my best work, my Gran Sport is miles from my best work, but they meet my expectations for these particular projects and most people won't see the flaws. I am thinking doing as I suggested will get this little Nova back on the street with a smile behind the steering wheel.

Brian

[69 widetrack]

That's why I suggested to the Nova owner to follow your advice...I still feel he needs to square the sub-frame to the body compared to relying on rear frame points as well (wouldn't you agree, he needs a starting point to hang sheet metal?). The rear frame, in the state it's in now is a misnomer when it comes to lining up the front and sheet metal...Wheel base is also not a measuring point any more because the rear frame rails...When the rear differential is installed, it may be off to one side, to check, measure gaps and cross measure points on the rear of the car, with his O to J measurements being 3/16 of an inch difference, he can expect his rear end to be out by 3/4 to 1 inch or more on the ends of the brake drums. This won't affect his front sheet metal alignment.

So I feel he should get the front sub-square to the body, not the rear frame rails and do as you suggested by starting with aligning the rad support and hanging sheet metal, all the while, some adjustments are going to be constantly made to the front Sub-frame to adjustment for gaps and fit.

The rear quarters and some of the floor have been replaced, the rear frame rails aren't moving anymore with these items welded in or more problems arise...This way he can get a weekend driver with fit and gaps that hopefully he can live with.

I'm rereading my post and your post and I think we agree, just used different words.

Ray

[MARTINSR]

The only difference between what we are saying is you are saying the correct way, square the sub frame to the body, THEN do the sheetmetal. I am saying the wrong way, but the "bestest" way in this particular project because I am not sure what you can measure off of to mount the sub frame square!

The A pillar is back on the left, the A PILLAR, the whole friggin corner of the body is back on the left, what do you have to measure from, hear me?

So I am saying this is going to have to be a "bestest" fit and a roundyround kinda job with fitting sheetmetal and going to sub frame and checking to be sure the whole front end IS square with the body, looking at MANY different points being A pillar isn't where it belongs.

You could measure off the straight stuff in the back and come forward finding all that is off and literally figure out exactly where that lower mount at the firewall is SUPPOSE to be, and put it there, you COULD do that, but I am not so sure that is going to happen on this car.

So I suggested the wrong way, to get it "close enough" for this daily driver. Sometimes it's just best to suggest "bestest" ways being the right way, well it's out of the question in this case unless he wants to go backwards big time.

Nova, if you want to go back and fix this stuff let me know and we can start over and get it all straight.

Brian

[69 widetrack]

We are saying the same thing Brian, I'm suggesting putting the front sub-frame in loosely, putting the rad support loosely, squaring everything off to the body, loosely. He needs the rads support to give him inner fender support to give him front wheel well support so he can cross measure a hood opening...Correct? That's also why I mentioned in my last post about readjusting his front sub-frame while he's aligning sheet metal.

I think it's the same thing as what your saying, from now on he only needs a tape measure for is cross measuring his hood opening, everything is eyeballing and splitting the best difference.

Does this make sense , if not, please let me know because that's the way I would tackle it.

Ray

[MARTINSR]

Yep, basically yes, just a dance, a dance with all the front sheetmetal and frame until it's close enough.

Brian

[69 widetrack]

Thank you Brian
A suggestion to the Nova owner, would be to line the sheet metal up the way it is described and when all is acceptable to him, start tightening the bolts that give him the alignment he wants tarting at the bottom bolts of the fender, then the top bolts and move forward and side to side, all the while, taking cross measurements for his hood alignment.

Ray

Ray

[69 widetrack]

Just a thought and I should have explained more... don't leave the bolts extremely loose, just a loose fit, run the bolts to the end to the thread and give them a quarter turn with a wrench, then tighten the front sub-frame more, and start your tightening procedure as described in #34.

Hope this helps.

Ray

[NOVA1958]

Guys this is the most help I've every gotten on a website. I posted this on another web site and only got 4 replies and it was strictly a Nova site. I wish I would have looked the car over better than I did because I would have passed knowing it had been wreaked. I guess that why this phrase exist (**** HAPPENS).I took measurement inside the engine bay as advised. The only spots I could measure from was the top fender mounting bolts out to the fender tips both were 68” so the front end seems the be square with the body. Couldn’t measure out to the hood adjusting bolts because the previous owner had put hood pin there. You can see where it fixed that issue. I also took some pics for you guys to look over.






Pics of the rear.I can see the damage now.




This is the pass side.

So you guys are saying align subframe to the car not the rear end.What will this do to the tracking? Now all I need to do is figure out where to measure to and from.Can the guy that's a Nova Guru chime in on this one any suggestions.
I going to address all this this week end so I'll probable have more questions.

Again guy thanks.

[69 widetrack]

Your more than welcome and I'm sincerely hoping that things work out to your satisfaction. As I mentioned in a previous post, much of what your doing now is going to take eyeball measurements. The hood opening will take cross measurements before you do your final bolt down (sorry I can't make out the measurements in the pictures because of glare). Align the front sub-frame to the body, even by eye now because, your firewall, and A pillar have been pulled to allow door gaps...your rear frame rail measurements are out the window because of the difference in your "O" to "J" measurements. By keeping the front sub-frame semi loose, it should be easier to move it forward or backwards if needed. Gaps are going to be an "I can live with that" type of a situation. It will be a situation that may get frustrating but keep at it, a little here, a little there and you can get results that hopefully you can live with.

As far as the tracking issue goes, I would say it is hard to tell with 100% certainty, but chances are if you have the rear end bolted into the original mounting spots, it will track sideways...It probably did when you bought it, but, who looks at rear differential spacing's in a wheel well? Not many people.

I'm glad to hear your on a track that will give you better results and again, I hope that in the end, they are acceptable. Any other questions, we'll be happy to help if we can.

Best to you

Ray

[69 widetrack]

With regards to your hood measurements, measure across as well for the hood with. Also with regards to the tracking issue...don't worry to much about that now, fix the alignment issues first. This car needs to be built somewhat backwards to get gaps and no matter what you do with the gaps the tracking issue will be there later and can be addressed at that time. I know it's disheartening but your not the first or last person that this has and will be happening to...the bright side, look at the experience your getting and the next one you'll have so much more knowledge...it always helps to have knowledge and often it gets the price down when buying a project.

Ray

[69 widetrack]

More tips on engine bay and hood measurements, use points on your rad support (front Fender bolts, etc.) and cowl for rough cross measurements, you have probably the most adjustment of anything on your hood adjustment on your springs. As I think of more help I will keep on posting, I'm trying to visualize a 72 Nova and how it's put together and every once in a while, I think of something that may help.

[novafreek6872]

I'm all outta tips on this one, I'll leave it to the collision masters. You are in good hands!! If that Nova could only talk, what a story it would tell huh?

[MARTINSR]

First off don't measure to the end of the fender, you want to know where the rad support is, not the end of the fender as that can change back and forth by moving them in or out or forward or back on the rad support right?

You want to use one of those fender bolts, that is if those bolts to into a fixed nut on the top of the rad support and I memory serves me they do. If they are going into a "j nut" that moves around to allow for alignment, you can't use them. You need a "control point" on that rad support on each side that is identical.

Cross measure from the rear bolt at the fire wall to the fender bolt on the rad support I just described. There is a bolt that goes straight down onto the top of the firewall right?

Is that area unmodified? We are still searching for "control points"!

Brian

[NOVA1958]

Hey guys, I have more questions.While taking a break from aligning the subframe I switched to something else.With the sheet metal align up front I figured I'd see how the bumper plastic filler fit.There are 2 of them one metal and one plastic.As you can see everything bolted up fairly easy,but the plastic top piece doesn't fit.There was no plastic filler on the car when I purchased it.I'll remove both and take another pic so you can see the metal one. Does anybody have a pic of this put together.


Something else I'd like to ask about the subframe alignment.Looking at the rear frame rail in the back the driver side does seem the be back alittle but if that was so wouldn't that make it very hard to bolt up the rear end.The leaf springs and rear axle go in as a whole and all bolt up fairly easy.

Also I noticed some of the pics I posted last week aren't showing up.

Thanks

[69 widetrack]

#1 the rear would bolt up fairly easily, where the problem comes in is how it tracks after it's installed...not that this test is an accurate depiction of "if or if not" your rear end is in square, it will only give you an idea. Measure from the center of the brake drum to the bottom of the rocker panel and also measure from the center of the axle to the bottom of the rear quarter panel. Compare from side to side...as I said, this is not an accurate measurement to determine tracking (as both quarters have been replaced)...just a starting point.

#2 Yes, more pictures would be helpful as far as the front filler pieces go.

Glad to hear from you again, I was thinking about you and your Nova yesterday and wondering how you where making out.

Ray