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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2012, 06:06 PM
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Found the problem with the hood latch support and steel bumper filler.The crap is bent.As I said before the hood latch support was not in the car and bumper filler only had about 4 bolts holding it in.
Took the measurements widetrack suggested,from a spot on the brake drum to the rocker panel on both sides. Front measurements on both sides were 10 1/4 and the back measurement was 11 7/8 pass side and 11 5/8 on the dr side.I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to do this.

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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2012, 06:20 PM
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!/4 inch is much less than I expected...with replacement quarters put on, this is not a definite conclusion that your rear will track straight, but it's a very good sign...Next question...Does one side of the rear end stick out further that the other? Run a plum line down from the quarter then measure from the brake drum to the plum line, measure both sides...this will tell you if you have a great variance from one side to the other...remember though, even new cars did have some variance so what we are looking for is something like over 1/2 inch difference. These measurements are not accurate, what they are doing is giving you an idea of how the car will look driving down the road and a glimps of how it will track.

Ray
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2012, 08:01 AM
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Did as you suggested and the measurements are the same on both side 5 3/4.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2012, 08:30 AM
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That is great news, by the sounds of it, if you have a tracking issue it should be minor...How is all the sheet metal lining up?

Ray
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:41 PM
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All the sheet metal lines up better than expected.As far as the tracking issue how much out of alignment does it have to be to create an issue.I'm getting ready to address the issue of the subframe not lining up right up front.The subframe is in align with the rear end now as best as I can tell .I'm think I need to shift the subframe towards the pass side about 1/4 in and I hope this does create a problem.All suggestions will be deeply appreciated.

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Old 12-05-2012, 08:03 PM
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As far as the the rear end tracking issue goes, 1/4 inch is not that big a deal, it's only 1/8 per side which I wouldn't worry about...The problem now is not the tracking of the rear end as much as your wheel base, once you have all the sheet metal bolted in place...about a week ago you mentioned that getting the sheet metal on with acceptable gaps was your main concern and by the sounds of it, we are pretty close to that now.

What is happening is that we are, for lack of better terminology, splitting differences when we align sheet metal this was...we didn't have a choice because of the rear frame rail issues not allowing us to align the front frame to the rear frame. When all the fenders cowl, rad support etc. are on and your happy with the gaps, you can bolt down your front sub frame. That is when you check for wheel base and that will determine either front or rear tracking. I hope I'm explaining this in an understandable way.

Are you shifting the entire sub-frame over 1/4 of an inch or moving it at an angle?

Ray
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:37 PM
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At this point, could you move the rad support over to align the holes and still have "decent" gaps? About the only one that will be nuts is the hood. If you move it over can you make everything "decent"?

Brian
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:45 AM
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Martinsr if I try and move the radiator support it screws up everything.All the door gaps,hood.wiper cowl etc are very good.When I said better than expected a little early you would have to have seen the car before I started .The pass side door gap was about 1/2 ,drivers door 1/8 maybe a little more so I'm very happy with the gaps.The back door gap is about a paint stick and the front gap is not quite 2 paint sticks.
I was going to just leave the subframe as it is in the pic but I forgot about the front bumper I mounted it and it throws the front bumper off to one side.I was even looking at modifying the front bumper brackets but that's out of the question.I'm thinking I need to mount the front bumper then move the subframe till all looks good do some measuring then bolt it down.
Widetrack As for moving the subframe I'm going to try both ways.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2012, 09:51 AM
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OK Nova1958, as all, Yourself, Brian and I have been trying to put your Nova back together and agree that it's a situation of moving one piece here and another there, splitting differences on measurements to get proper gaps, you may need to move your sub-frame in both directions to find a happy medium. I re-read the posts re-look at the pictures and there has to be a happy medium because you've made improvements with a donor sub-frame and the car was together when you got it...Some times it must feel like one of those puzzles where the picture is of pencils and in your case all the pieces are the same shape..LOL.

I'm trying to help someone with a paint situation as well, all I can do there is see his end results, listen to what he is doing to fix the problem and offer a potential solution...It seems to have been a defective regulator that was causing his problems...If I was there, I could have heard that and made suggestions. Try it both ways, If Brian or I where there to help, it would be of benefit...in the meantime, keep us informed and we won't give up until your Nova wins the 2013 "Ridler Award" or at least until your happy.

Ray
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Old 12-08-2012, 04:17 PM
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Ok guys I love it when a plans works out.I moved the whole subframe 3/16 in and it worked out great.I only have one problem and it was there before I moved the subframe. When I sat the car on jack stands #1 in the pic all the sheet metal seemed to fit better,when I say better I mean there seems to be no tension in the sheet metal.For some reason there is pressure on the radiator support when I sat the car on stand #2.Put it back on stand #1 problem goes away.I have new bushings and all are in the right spots and yes I put the factory spacer back in.What do you guys think about putting another spacer / washer in the middle to take away the tension.






Before I moved the subframe the pass fender hit the bumper now its the same on both sides


The radiator support holes lines up better.


I was even able to pull my diagonals and all came out fine.I still don't understand that but I'm glad it worked out.


This is how I keep everything inline.


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Old 12-08-2012, 04:47 PM
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At this point, using another spacer won't hurt, give it a try. Situations like this can arise when dealing with a Uni-body car that's been involved in previous collision damage. One space, if it saves you the head ache of more alignment problems and the sheet metal is acceptable to you...go for it.

After you put the spacer in, we can start looking at the tracking issue, time to measure wheel base. Could you report back with right and left wheel base measurements and we can compare...Don't worry about camber or castor just yet, lets get the measurements and we can start making suggestions to help you out in this department. After the wheel base issue is resolved, one more problem...the alignment of the rear bumper.

Well my friend, I am so happy that your coming close to being happy...let's keep working on these issues and get a full grin on your face.

Glad to hear good results and I appreciate your patience.

Ray
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Old 12-08-2012, 04:49 PM
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When it get's closer to you getting it ready for paint, let me know and I'll walk you through all the proper steps...Are you painting the car or are you sub letting it to a paint shop?

Ray
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Old 12-08-2012, 05:06 PM
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Your Nova is looking great! You are doing a fine job of working out this mess and it is looking great.

Brian
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:22 AM
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Widetrack sorry for not mentioning but wheel base is sat at 110.5" both sides and I was even able to pull a diagonal from under the car.I don't under stand how but it measured out the same.
As for painting and body work I had a couple guys come by and give me prices from 8 grand to 12 grand ,about passed out.So in my mind bondo slinging couldn't be that hard so I gave body work a try and it's not for me.I had been talking to a friend who has been doing paint and body work on classic's for 30 years and he was giving me pointers and showing me what to do but after working on just the trunk for about a month I decided body work was not for me.I had a talk with with him and ask him how much he would charge me to do the body and paint work.He told me a job like that is around 10 to 12 grand BUT FOR YOU $4000.00 plus material. Big smile and relief.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:37 AM
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Glad to hear about your wheel base being equal on both sides, your tracking issue now would appear to be a "non issue"...Your right, it's great when a good plan comes together.

As far as body work and paint goes, it looks like you have that under control...It's amazing how many people faint when they hear that the cost would be up to 12K...but when you factor in the cost of paint material (about $1,000 minimum for quality products), all the man hours it takes to make a vehicle straight...then to have the ability to put a paint job on that lies down flat and has a lot of shine...and then cutting and polishing takes between 30 and 40 hours...it adds up rear fast. I did a frame off build not long ago and my bill was close to 25K...the customer was complaining the whole way through the build, but, I did what he told me he wanted.....I tried to keep him informed on a regular basis as what was going on and as always I kept a daily log a to what happened on his vehicle...towards the end of the build he started to understand...and when the build was finished, he was extremely happy.

$4K is a very reasonable price...you should wear a grin from ear to ear...what color is it going to be?

It seems that all that's left is the rear bumper, have you checked the alignment of that yet?

Ray
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