Putting it back together (72 Nova) - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Body - Exterior
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2012, 11:15 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Memphis Tn
Age: 56
Posts: 65
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Putting it back together (72 Nova)

Finely getting it put back together to see how things line up before it goes to the paint shop.This car did not line up at all when I purchased it, big gap here, big gap there. It also had been wreaked on the driver side.

Got the subframe powered coated and aligned with car.These are the steps I took.
1.Used dow pins to get it close.
2.got the wheel base 110.5 that's as close to 111 as I could get it.
3.got the side to sides measured out
4.most important was the diagonals I pulled from 4 spots all within 1/16 to 1/8.
There was a lot more to this but this gives you and idea.



Fenders,radiator support,hood all bolted on so far so good. (THEN)

If I align these hoses it throws everything out of alignment door gaps,fender gaps and hood alignment.Has anybody had this problem.

Thanks

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2012, 11:21 AM
poncho62's Avatar
Out of the Loop Moderator
 
Last wiki edit: Streetbeasts links
Last journal entry: at car show
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hanover, Ontario, Canada
Age: 62
Posts: 16,926
Wiki Edits: 5

Thanks: 22
Thanked 284 Times in 225 Posts
Fairly common on any older car, especially if it has been in an accident. I have followed some Novas down the road that I could see right up the side of it, dogtracking up the road.....and that was when they were pretty new. Just got to just keep working at it until its right.
__________________
Ontario Rodders

Budget RVs
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2012, 11:37 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,276
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,418
Thanked 1,218 Times in 1,075 Posts
You need to start with making sure the sub frame is square. Check it to the body and check it within it's self.

Here are a couple of examples. A to B should be the same as C to D right?



8 to 5 should be the same as 7 to 6 right?



Find "control points" that being a spot on both sides that are identical, those rad support holes in the frame are perfect. The back of the subframe isn't so easy with it in there. But you could even go from the center hole on the crossmember out to the frame horns to a hole or to a corner to see if the frame is bent. Go to a number of different spots to verify you are getting the same amount off or on to be SURE you are getting a good reading. Go to the body somewhere to be sure the frame is straight on the body.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to MARTINSR For This Useful Post:
novafreek6872 (11-26-2012)
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2012, 03:55 PM
novafreek6872's Avatar
Nova Guru
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Central Va.
Age: 46
Posts: 396
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 76
Thanked 16 Times in 15 Posts
Excellent advice there Brian. Those cars can be a PITA to line back up when you take the subframe out. Oh and dont ever expect perfect gaps everywhere on a 72 Nova, especially with those wonderful, non adjustable door hinges.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2012, 06:16 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Memphis Tn
Age: 56
Posts: 65
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Thanks for the replies.
Forgot to mention the subframe under the car in the pics is from a donor car because the other one was bent.Before I put either one under the car I took a lot of measurement for both and used the best one.Check out the pic (F and G) measured from both sides and both are within 1/16 to 1/8.Also pulled diagonals measurements in red from the lower control arm bolt to the rear master gage hole in the rear also within a 1/16 to 1/8 of each other.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2012, 08:10 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,276
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,418
Thanked 1,218 Times in 1,075 Posts
Those measurements would tell you that the sub frame is mounted to the body straight but it doesn't help you one bit as far as telling you if the subframe is square or not. You need to measure the frame it's self then go onto the next step.

Is that rad support and all the sheetmetal reproduction?

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2012, 06:38 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Memphis Tn
Age: 56
Posts: 65
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
The only new sheet metal is pass.front fender,both rear quarters,everything else is factory.Here's measurements of the subframe before I put it under the car.I sat it on jack stands,leveled the best I could and then hung plum-bobs from most of the master gage holes.plus I added some measurements.Mark spots on floor and then took my measurements.Most are very close to spec and some are right on.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2012, 07:03 AM
Faith - Respect - Trust
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ontario
Age: 58
Posts: 3,508
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 192
Thanked 638 Times in 572 Posts
Brian, I've been following this thread with great interest and when it comes to frames I'm not as well versed as you and or many other people here. I just felt that I needed to mention a situation that I ran across in the past to get proper gaps and sheet metal alignment.

The shop I was at had a Camaro with a similar situation due to a collision. We where working with a new replacement GM sub-frame and when installed to the measured tolerances, we couldn't get the sheet metal to line up. The car had been hit (and fairly hard for insurance to pay for a new sub-frame) so hard in the front end that it changed the dimensions on the rear frame slightly, it was a while ago but I think I remember one side being out 3/16 inch compared to the other. Door gaps where moderately acceptable but the rad support, fender and hood wouldn't line up at all. Our frame guy pulled the rear frame, we had much better gaps and all sheet metal fit.

It was mentioned that this Nova was hit, could the same situation be the problem here? I know that if your measuring from what's supposed to be a constant position and that position isn't constant anymore, a 3/16 of an inch towards the rear of the car can mean an inch or more on the front especially when dealing with 2 seperate frames on a vehicle.

If I'm way out to lunch let me know, as I mentioned in past posts, I'm here to learn more.

Ray
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
The Following User Says Thank You to 69 widetrack For This Useful Post:
MARTINSR (11-28-2012)
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2012, 08:06 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,276
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,418
Thanked 1,218 Times in 1,075 Posts
Ray, his measurements from post #5 pretty much take care of that.

Ok, the next step is to open that hood or remove it so we can forget about it's fit and just look at the rad support to frame and body. When I see that hole not lining up on the rad support, and the frame measures off to the body and within it's self, that leaves us with nothing but the rad support is the one that is off. Move it over so the bolts will drop in. Now cross measure the engine compartment. Rad support back to the fender bolts on the top of the firewall. It's hard without running around the car completely in person. How about some photos of the sides of the fenders to door gaps and across the rear of the hood. Is the cowl panel on?

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2012, 08:07 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Memphis Tn
Age: 56
Posts: 65
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
The car must have been hit fairly hard on the driver side because it push the drivers side where the fender and door,subframe all connect back about 3/8 in.even the pillar was pushed back.Before I found this I had smoothed the firewall.I got a friend that's a body guy to come over to see about pulling all that out and he said it would screw up all the work I've done on the firewall,he suggested leaving it alone.The only damage I could find to the rear frame was right inside the driver fender well looked like it may have hit a curb or something on put a pretty good dent in it.The way I found this out was I purchased another door and it would not fit, it was to long.We measured the pass side and found the problem where the opening was pushed back.The body shop had made the door shell fit the opening, they pushed the front where the hinges are in,no modification to the door skin.The windshield fixes,everything fixes and all the lines are all good just the problem with the radiator support. I guest I should have mentioned this before.I guest I should be happy with what I've got taking all the time I have spent trying to get as close as possible.Again thanks for all the help.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2012, 08:13 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,276
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,418
Thanked 1,218 Times in 1,075 Posts
Wow, all bets are off then, you are going to have do some creative stuff on this one. But back in post #5 didn't you measure off the rear frame rails to the sub frame and it was square? How could this be if the mount for the sub frame on the left side is back 3/8"?

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2012, 08:17 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,276
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,418
Thanked 1,218 Times in 1,075 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOVA1958 View Post
The car must have been hit fairly hard on the driver side because it push the drivers side where the fender and door,subframe all connect back about 3/8 in.even the pillar was pushed back.Before I found this I had smoothed the firewall.I got a friend that's a body guy to come over to see about pulling all that out and he said it would screw up all the work I've done on the firewall,he suggested leaving it alone.The only damage I could find to the rear frame was right inside the driver fender well looked like it may have hit a curb or something on put a pretty good dent in it.The way I found this out was I purchased another door and it would not fit, it was to long.We measured the pass side and found the problem where the opening was pushed back.The body shop had made the door shell fit the opening, they pushed the front where the hinges are in,no modification to the door skin.The windshield fixes,everything fixes and all the lines are all good just the problem with the radiator support. I guest I should have mentioned this before.I guest I should be happy with what I've got taking all the time I have spent trying to get as close as possible.Again thanks for all the help.
You have some serious thinking here, the body shop modified the door to fit the hinge pillar that was pushed back and there was no sheet metal on the front at the time?

I feel like Columbo finding a body in the garden shed half way thru the show. EVERYTHING changes now.
How about your bodyman friend who told you to leave the firewall and pillar alone, where is he now?

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2012, 08:30 AM
Faith - Respect - Trust
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ontario
Age: 58
Posts: 3,508
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 192
Thanked 638 Times in 572 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR View Post
Wow, all bets are off then, you are going to have do some creative stuff on this one. But back in post #5 didn't you measure off the rear frame rails to the sub frame and it was square? How could this be if the mount for the sub frame on the left side is back 3/8"?

Brian
That's what I was getting at Brian, if it's hit that hard and the front sub-frame was replaced, couldn't it be the rear frame rails that are out because they are a stationary point of measurement.

Ray
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2012, 08:44 AM
Faith - Respect - Trust
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ontario
Age: 58
Posts: 3,508
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 192
Thanked 638 Times in 572 Posts
Sorry for asking, as I haven't followed this car from the start of the build, but was there or is there much body work in the rear quarters? I remember doing body work on the rear quarters and the C pillar on the Camaro I was talking about earlier due to the bending the rear frame rails took.

Ray
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2012, 08:55 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,276
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,418
Thanked 1,218 Times in 1,075 Posts
You were exactly right Ray! My point earlier was that in post #5 he shows measurements made to the rear frame and it's square!
Thanks for bringing that up for him to spill the beans.
Then drops the bomb shell that the frame mount and A pillar is back, that is exactly what this photo shows!



So when we are told the measurements are right in post #5, all we are looking at is the sheetmetal at that point, like the gaps to the doors and such. But if the frame is over, as this photo clearly shows, the frames mounting points need to be corrected before anything more can be done.

And if that whole "A" pillar is back, YEOW, there is some work ahead bolting on the sheetmetal is a ways off.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Body - Exterior posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help! Putting AC back into my Cutlass zildjian4life218 Engine 11 07-25-2012 09:02 AM
Putting America BACK to work Bad Rat Off-Topic 3 12-11-2011 02:21 PM
Putting a 37 back together Leakie Body - Exterior 4 08-04-2011 06:31 PM
EGR Valve (putting it back?) crash70rs Engine 7 04-12-2007 08:06 AM
Putting back together front suspension chirpn69 Suspension - Brakes - Steering 4 05-07-2006 12:48 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.