Hot Rod Forum banner

putting a FI set up on 406

1K views 10 replies 5 participants last post by  Siggy_Freud 
#1 ·
what is a recomended buget way to do a , do it yourself, thing on FI. I can sure just go buy holley's stealth ram set up with all neccisarly hardware and stuff. however being as i was into 3rd gen camaros (and this motor is actualy for a 3rd gen camaro but has a v6) I recall reading on a message board where they used there existing wiring harness etc and put on the HSR some how and probably incorperated the computer?

this car was intended to be a carbed motor car. however I might look into tinkering with the FI on THIS motor, doesn't hurt to learn, as I am also getting into the automotive field it wouldnt hurt as well. I believe a FI set up is 2 g's retail us. looking to spend maybe 1 grand. if I found a junkyard find for the TPI set up, and just took harness , dist. ecm, sensors???? and then buy the the fuel rales and tunnel ram part of the HSR set up I believ eyou can incorperate it iwth that. make it much cheaper?


I"m onlyusing the HSR for an example if anyone knows. what kind of sensors of any are to be installed other than your regular temp, oil pressure usually?


and how does it work , how hard is it to 'tune" and does ever one of these systems off the 'note book in car' tuning? is there a program which would come With it to be installed on your comp?

cheers

blake
 
See less See more
#2 ·
You need the I.A.C. valve (idle air control), the T.P.S. (Throttle Position Sensor ), M.A.P. sensor (Manifold Air Pressure) and O2 sensor (Oxygen) at a minimum.

It is possible to use a GM E.C.U. and harness with a custom chip matched to the application.

This link will help you get a basic understanding of how fuel injection functions. Start on that page and continue to the end. It's fairly simple.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-injection2.htm

Larry
 
#3 ·
Hsr

You could try to mix the needed TPI and HSR parts to do it but the expense comes in the tuning. The stock TPI eprom is not gonna have the proper calibrations to feed a 406 with a HSR. So now do you buy a bunch of eproms, a burner, the required software, a data logging cable etc, etc. Or do you try to do a megasquirt setup or go with the whole HSR package. Your $1k budget isn't enough. Or you won't be happy with the comprimises you will make. Save more and then do the swap. In the mean time research which way you want to go. Stock TPI computer, commander 950, megasquirt, FAST, Accel DFI........
 
#4 ·
Grab all the sensors and wiring from the TPI. You can use the injectors too if you'd like, but as your going to be feeding 406 inches, you might want to look into some aftermarket injectors (probably at least 24lb in size).

The Holley Stealth ram uses all the stock sensors from the TPI, but be sure and grab a small diameter distributor and remote coil setup, as the coil-in-cap design will not have clearance with the Stealth Ram.

As far as the ECU is concerned, your going to have to get the stuff to do your own chips, or work closely and patiently with someone who can burn you chip after chip to get the tune nice and close.

check out www.moates.net. If you are going to have someone chip it for you, at least get the stuff nessesary to datalog, and make sure to research your chip man. Dont settle for generic burns!

There is also the aftermarket ECU/wiring harness route. A bit more expensive but most offer direct tuning via a computer interface port. I also believe their tuning interface is a bit more simple than TunerPro (which is a standard GM Eprom program). That said, I havent had a chance to use an aftermarket interface, so I am only going on what I've read and heard.

If you decide to do the tuning yourself and want to go with a stock ECU, look into a unit called the Ostrich. It basically piggybacks to your ECU and acts as a chip, so instead of burning a new chip each time, you simply interface your laptop with it and do the tuning directly, with your ECU being updated in real time. The Ostrich can be found at moates.net as well.

Many people making insane power with TPI type injection units. Especially with the 406's :). Search Thirdgen.org for some recent dyno examples using the Super ram (as similiar but lower RPM manifold).
 
#5 ·
that siggy, thats the kind of response I like to see. I woudl like to be able to tune my car with the 'cheesy' lap top deal LOL. ;) . this will be a neat learning process for me. I'll do a search for what you were talking about the super ram?

and did you mean use the TPI set up? the runners and all? I used to be on that site often and iroczone.com and many people seemed to dismay away from them for a higher hp motor. seeking to make an honest 475hp with thise combo.

406
srp flat tops
dart iron eagle 215 cc heads(2.05 I believe is the valve size?) 64cc chamber
5.7 rods


cam not choosen yet!

hydraulid flat tappet however!
 
#6 ·
so this is an other post on a canada site I go on for a set up for sale this is what it included, I coudl grab this and then sell the intake and runners.

what else needs to be changed and or upgraded? ie fuel injectors, fuel rails I believe?


intake
plenum
runners
fuel rails
305 injectors
distributor
intake air foil
intake tube
k&n filter
some braided line
new fuel filter
maf (new)
oil pressure switch
coolant temp sensor (new)
Federal Mogul (Carter) ext fuel pump
electric fan and brackets
ecm
Painless tpi harness
Painless manual
Camaro shop manual
rad hoses and heater hoses (inc t-fitting for the lower rad hose)
throttle cable
o2 sensor

With the exception of a vehicle speed sensor this is everthing you need to put this setup on any sbc and make it work.
No hunting on ebay or in junkyards for the little things



and then would I use the stock ECM and just program the HSR that way? I want to do the computer deal and plug it right in, or get used to burning chips. as I work for a speedshop and if I learned it I woudl be the only that knows how, thus bringing more business in as there not too common of places around here to do that

so right know my knowledge is that i need to buy the
HSR intake
58mm throttle body
fuel rails
injectors

that alone with buying the used tpi deal is probably over 2 g's itself. he wanted 1000 for the tpi set up canadian. seen better prices but... this is an example

might be worth just buying the system
 
#7 ·
Looks like you have pretty much your parts list covered. For any motor over 5000RPM powerband, you'll want to stay away from the stock TPI manifold setup. The HSR would be a good manifold setup to use. You can retain all the stock sensors for this unit.

If I were you, I'd be more inclined to use a Speed Density system (that uses a MAP sensor instead of a MAF sensor). Most tuning resources especially at thirdgen.org are geared towards tuning a MAP system.

For a 406 you'll definitely want new injectors. Those 305 injectors will probably be straining and maxing out their duty cycle to keep up, especially in the upper rpms. You might look at thirdgen.org and Corvetteforum.com to see what size injectors people are running with their 406's. Id guess 24lb-32lb injectors depending on personal preference, future mods, tuning ability, and head/cam combination. You'd probably want 24-26lb injectors.

You might also look at a MINIRAM manifold setup as that is also more geared towards a bit higher RPM performance.

Depending on the route you want to go, there are a number of tuning options available. You could get the Flash prom burning equiptment from Moates.net to burn chips for your TPI. These would plug into the stock ECM but you'd have to use an adapter. These are the types of chips you can rewrite on without having to have a special eraser for them.

If you plan on perhaps providing a chip burning service in the future for your tuning shop, you might look into getting the regular Prom burner equiptment, that requires a UV eraser to erase the chips. This would make it so clients wouldn't need an adapter sodered into their computer to run an aftermarket chip.

Either way, you should be able to tune nicely for your 406. It will take a lot of reading and practicing to get the jist of it. I have been doing it for a few months and still have LOADS to learn.

Though a bit more expensive, Holley offers a complete harness/ECM setup that doesn't require a chip, only that you plug the laptop in. This is a prime time to make a decision on things, as you will need a harness and ECM either way.

You can buy the TPI sensor components from a parts store or ebay. If you plan on running a HRS or Miniram, you dont need any of the manifold components for the TPI. Just the sensors, wiring and computer. The Miniram uses the stock fuel rails I believe, whereas the HSR uses its own fuel rails that must be purchased along with the HSR.

If the idea of Holleys stand-alone tuning system appeals to you, the whole package might be worth it. But if you want to get into chip burning for both you and your tuning shop, I think you can piece together a system using the HSR manifold, and stock TPI sensor components for a good price.

PS - I apologize if some of this information is unclear. Its somewhat late here and I've been doing language homework all afternoon and night.
 
#8 ·
clear as mud LOL jk thanks a lot for the reply, you've answered my question best :thumbup:

I think I will lean towards the HSR system just to get used to it, I'm only 22 so I havne't had much experience with cars PERIOD, and my master dude LOL, is more olds school. finding sometihng like that formyself is probably waht i wont, an dcould also invest in that chip burning equipment , any idea on how much it cost? be an investment for the company, I'm sure i'd even be able to tune 'rice'? which I woudlnt like but money is money and more word of mouth especially being probalby the only place to do that in a radius of 30miles and population of probalby 400,000 in that area and the only 1/4 mile in the province**(same as a state if u didn't know) is only about 10 k or 6 miles away
 
#9 ·
Well if you go with the burning equipment that I did you should be able to tune for OBD1 Hondas, Fords, and Chevys. You'll need different adaptors for the Dataport plugins and for the ECM's but you'll be fairly set. All of my flash burning stuff costs me a little over 200 if I remember right, but this included and adaptor and two chips for myself.

Also, I highly recommend learning how to soder and remove soder, especially in ECM's. I havent had a chance to practice this yet but it is nessesary for adding adaptors to MOST ECM's.

If you need any futher help once you start picking up the parts and tuning and whatnot, let me know.

Good luck.

Dylan
 
#11 ·
I am using a zif socket for the chip itself to sit into the adaptor to make it easy to take it in and out. I was fortunate to run an ECM (GM# 165) that didn't require soldering. But if you look at Moates.net at some of the other adaptors for the other ECM's soldering is required.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top