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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2007, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambo_The_Dog
Wow - these are extremely old bulleteins...but a search doesn't reveal anything newer than 1990 where OSHA states "...impact resistant acrylonitrile-butadiene-styrene (ABS) pipe, resists shatter-type failures under known sizing, pressure and environmental conditions"

The Use of Thermoplastic Pipe in Above Ground Locations: December 13, 1990

So what OSHA says (IMHO) if you use PVC for compressed gases it shouldn't be over 100psi, and buried, or encased in shatterproof covering.

But ABS piping can be used without the added protections for compressed gases...does anyone know more about ABS pipe?
So no one has used impact resistant acrylonitrile-butadiene-styrene (ABS) pipe in their shops? It would be nice to get some additional information on this material as it IS rated for compressed gas use.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2007, 09:10 PM
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for what it's worth, i ran copper in my shop last year after discussing with my cousin (20+ years as a bodyman) and he told me once he was working in a shop and the limiting switch on the compressor went bad , he was working at a bench and the pvc line was at eye level , he just turned his back to the line to walk away from the bench and BOOM, the line exploded and he had shards of pvc in his back and a blood speckled shirt.... needless to say he advised against pvc so i ran copper (had to sweat 38 fittings..argh) but amazingly not one of em leaked ! so it really wasn't too bad.. i ran 3/4" copper
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Old 02-17-2007, 09:23 PM
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I have no experience with ABS for compressed air but I understand it is far more flexible and the pressure rating is less heat sensitive so it should be safe from the shattering problem. If it is rated for the pressure it may very well be safe to use but I would still think it would make for a bad system due to cooling problems under high flow conditions, maybe?
When it comes right down to it just how much can one save on a 50' system and what would the trade-offs be? I would think that the few dollars saved would not be worth trading a time proven extremely durable system for a moisture prone and fragile plastic system but if it is safe and thats what someone wants it may work ok.

I did a quick search and came up with this, found it interesting

http://www.cbs.state.or.us/osha/inte...-89-06(rr).pdf
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 02-17-2007, 10:58 PM
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in my earlier days as a plumber in NJ we used abs on waste lines i have never seen it in anything smaller than 1-1/4" and the pressure on a waste line enen during testing purposes is only a few psi .
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Old 02-18-2007, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 59 wagon man
in my earlier days as a plumber in NJ we used abs on waste lines i have never seen it in anything smaller than 1-1/4" and the pressure on a waste line enen during testing purposes is only a few psi .
Low pressure on a sewage waste line is a GOOD thing.
If you ever had a high pressure rupture ... the crap would really fly.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 02-18-2007, 05:23 PM
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cost effectivness

Oldred
As of today at menards
3/4 PVC .47 per foot not approved for high pressure gas suggested working pressure 60psi max Not UV resistant
3/4 black iron .62 per foot approved for high pressure gas in interior application. Outdoor use permitted if coated
3/4 galvanized .76 per foot not recommended for gas
3/4 type M copper 1.46 per foot not approved for high pressure gas
3/4 type L copper 2.14 per foot not approved for high pressure gas
3/4 flexible copper 2.48 per foot approved for high pressure gas(350 psi) when installed according to code

Beins how I'm about to install a new system in my shop guess i'll just stick to black iron. Cost effective, will outlast me and my progeny, zero leaks when properly installed. Why mess with something that is dangerous, a possible problem or just plain expensive
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 02-18-2007, 11:22 PM
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61, Nothing wrong with black iron probably more systems using it than anything else. I like Copper for a couple of reasons but it is quite $pendy and of the complaints I have heard mentioned about iron such as rust or leak problems I just simply have failed to find any of these to be a problem at all.



I have seen the results of one PVC rupture and also several other devices of even lesser volume/pressure cause serious damage when bursting for one reason or the other. I really believe that if everyone could see just how violently a PVC pipe will burst and how much damage even a small volume of high pressure air can do then I doubt we would even be having this discussion about the PVC.

Last edited by oldred; 02-18-2007 at 11:35 PM.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2007, 05:12 AM
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Lots of industrial places use the black iron pipe...all the bodyshops I have ever worked in had galvanized, or copper.

On the L rated copper...which I am using for cooling lines, is rated much higher PSI per 100F...unless I am reading this chart wrong...

http://www.copper.org/applications/p...th_table3b.htm
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2007, 07:41 AM
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The strength of Copper is really not even a question as it will easily handle far more pressure than it will ever see in air line service. I guess it would just come down to cost and it would be up to the buyer to decide if he wants to spend the extra money for any advantages Copper may offer such as better cooling (however iron pipe does pretty good here) and ease of installation so it really is just a matter of choice, either will do a good job.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2007, 08:50 AM
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I sure wish I had put my pictures on disk before my old computer crashed. I had pictures of my then new snowmobile with PVC darts in the seat. That was in 97. Immediately replaced the PVC with BIP. If you have drain legs with a ball valve at the bottom, dump them once a month, the air lines stay nice and clean. I have filtered outlets, and the filters look fine.

INVEST the money in a good system, and you don't have to waste the money ripping the junk out and replacing it with what you should have used to start with.

A sage word of advise for the guys building a new shop.
Putting air taps every 8' or so is a HUGE waste of money. One high quality 50' hose reel in the center of the shop should take care of all your needs. The taps every 8' mean chasing hoses, re-coiling them, more fittings, bigger pain in the butt. If you think you REALLY need to operate 2 hoses at once, use 2 reels. Hope your compressor will handle using 2 tools at once though.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2007, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beenaway2long

A sage word of advise for the guys building a new shop.
Putting air taps every 8' or so is a HUGE waste of money. One high quality 50' hose reel in the center of the shop should take care of all your needs. The taps every 8' mean chasing hoses, re-coiling them, more fittings, bigger pain in the butt. If you think you REALLY need to operate 2 hoses at once, use 2 reels. Hope your compressor will handle using 2 tools at once though.
I put 2 drops on my system. One is for painting and pumping up tires (dry air) and I put a T on the other drop with one outlet hooked up permanantly to my blast cabinet and the other side of the T has an oiler on it.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2007, 09:47 PM
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I put 3 drops in my shop and frankly i use em all, one by each bench and one for the sandblast cabinet. one is in the center of the shop with a 50 foot reel, the last is by a workbench by the garage door - easier than uncoiling 40ft of hose (usually over or around a car ) to air up tires outside the garage door. Everyone's situation is different. For me this seems to work well, actualy i wish I would have put a couple more drops in, but thats just me.. to each his own - it's all good
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 02-19-2007, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddrumguy
...
For me this seems to work well, actualy i wish I would have put a couple more drops in, but thats just me.. to each his own - it's all good
Well, that's another plus for that Airmax stuff. Shut off the ball valve at the tank, bleed the line pressure off, and reconfigure at will.

It's all slip-fit and only takes seconds to release, install a tee, and extend the line.

Want to move that FRL or drier?
Same thing.

I know that I sound like I'm trying to sell this stuff, but honest ... the place I work at now doesn't even sell it.

They have JUST released a PDF file that shows more of their product displays.

Last edited by 66GMC; 02-19-2007 at 10:14 PM. Reason: Update: PDF file available at AirMax now
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2007, 08:37 AM
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66, I guess I am still stuck on what I have used for so long and would probably spring for Copper or use black iron if I were to build a new shop today but as I said earlier one should at least look at new ideas and products. That stuff does look interesting and looks as if it would make for a neat clean installation but most of all it is designed for the purpose and should be safe. I have been thinking of adding a pressure washer pad (an area beside my shop to clean parts), this would be plumbed for water and air and since I have harped so much on air systems here I think maybe I will try the AirMax line for the air part of this and find out for myself how well it works. I can't believe I am actually considering using a plastic air line but after screaming so loudly against it for so long I have to admit this is different and as I said it is interesting so I would just like to know.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 02-20-2007, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
...
I think maybe I will try the AirMax line for the air part of this and find out for myself how well it works.
...
That's great! Your first-hand opinion on that stuff would be much valued and appreciated by myself, and possibly many others on this board.

Don
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